I think that Nat had the potential to be that, to a degree, had he lived in a different soceity. But he also did want advancement....

I wonder if it's too late to create friendships with most of the djinni because of their mistreatment for thousands of years.

It depends on the Djinnis persoanlity and how often they are summoned and how cruely they are treated...i don't think the spirits conform to each others opinions...

I would want mine to run free and be happy...happier anyway

Ramuthra wrote:1: Ptolemy treated Bartimeaus as an equal, something magicians don't do
2: He gave Bartimeaus the freedom to travel between Earth and the Other Place at will, without need for summonings and dismissals
3: When death was imminant, he dismissed Bartimeaus, sacrificing what was left of his own life in order to save Bartimaeus.

These points are absolutely correct.. but I would like to add a fourth one:

4: Ptolemy made a great gesture by coming to the Other Place to speak with Bartimaeus there, it meant leaving this whole master-slave business behind.
This gesture meant everything to Bartimaeus.

Here a quote from page 437 (scholastic ed) that shows what an impact the gesture had on the bond between bartimaeus and ptolemy and kitty:

"But Ptolemy had believed it [that djinni and magicians could work together on an equal basis] and that was enough, Just the echo of his faith was powerful enough to win me over when Kitty repeated this great gesture and came across to meet me. She'd renewed the bond [...] I'd have thrown myself into a pit of fire for Ptolemy and the same was true for Kitty now"

I think Ptolemy and Bartimaeus kinda loved each other. It was really touching in my opinion especially.

They did love each other.

Love is when you care so much about another person, or in this case, being you're willing to sacerfice yourself and act selflessly for them.

Truly theirs was one of the most touching friendships in the books.

Yes, but I was a bit more interested in Nathaniel's friendship with Bartimaeus. Because it did show.

Very much so.

Even though they hated each other. They remind me of two people who are supposed to hate each other, end up spending the day together, then at the end make up excuses to stay later.

They loved each other. Not sexually, obviously, just as beyond the best of friends.

Did what I just wrote make any sense at all?

It did to mean. But I'm never sensible, much less sane.

It showed at the Prime Minister's mansion, where he let Bartimaeus go instead of interrigating him.

His outlook on the relationship between magicains and demons was completly original. Also, unlike most he let go of Bartimus, even when it guarenteed his death. And finally, he went to the other place w/ Bart, wich put Bart in control completlly. He trusted him, when most don't. :D

Queezle did!

And Nat freed Bart. And Nat should have lived.

BTW, did Mr. Stroud ever say why he killed innocent little Nat?

YES THAT WOULD B THE WAY BUT HE WOULD B MORE POLITE

ignoring the mite, I imagine stroud did it cuz it's his book, and just felt it was what was needed, and what he wanted.

wow.. :sentynel: they 'kinda' loved each other?? wow...
these things r awosme!!!
did andyone see aything said before....ever??? last time i came here was like...3 moths ago...al the crap i said is probobly gone...right/? or does it just stay../?

Imp-pure, you scare me, you really do.
Ptolemy was a non-corrupt magician, not very many of those. The good die young.
He was a true friend of Bartimaeus', he went to the Other Place to talk to Bartimaeus, then dismissed him with his last breath.
So did Nat, but I still don't like him. :D

i know i said it before, but nathaniel was half nat (let's say, not so corrupted magician) and half john mandrake (very corrupted magician). and ptolemy was completely opposite of mandrake, so ofc barti had more respect for prolemy.

Here, here!
We can never have enough Ptolemy fans.

Well-spoken!!
Here here!!

neriana wrote: i know i said it before, but nathaniel was half nat (let's say, not so corrupted magician) and half john mandrake (very corrupted magician). and ptolemy was completely opposite of mandrake, so ofc barti had more respect for prolemy.

I guess, in the end Nat lost the 'mandrake-half' but yes, he would still be more corrupt than Ptolemy.