Less and less with each passing day...

Y'know, can I just go to Spain regardless? :P

Sure! Just come and chill with me free of drama, I'll save you a bed.

Speaking of Spain... how likely is it that Catalonia will split?

Nah, not very. They've been trying to get split for ages, but it would cost them a lot of resources and they would have to wait quite some time to enter the EU.
It doesn't stop the catalans from forbidding spanish in schools though.

So.... British people have Bartiforums, are you leaving the EU?

I'm only Canadian, but seeing as the Leave campaign seems to:

1. Be founded mostly on xenophobia.
2. Have helped cause one murder.
and it
3. Might lead to another global financial crisis.

It kind of sounds like a terrible idea. But I don't know all of the details, either.

They certainly are taking their sweet time counting the ballots. Polls were closed several hours ago and they aren't even nearly close to the halfway point.

Welp. Looks like 51.9% voted leave, the majority of which are over the age of 65. Trump has approved, which should have been a definite warning sign. Brits' first googling choice is 'what happens of you leave the EU' and Cameron has resigned.

What a fun day for all.

Yeah, the British Bartiforums contingent are more than a little upset about this to say the least. Even Stroud tweeted some pro-EU messages earlier.
Disappointing, stupid, scary.

I'm honestly surprised. Turns out the main concern of voters isn't "the economy." "Hatred of people who aren't you" (and I'm pretty sure racism, based on that one ad) and "not wanting to go outside in the rain," take priority.

They do all realize that recessions kill vulnerable people, right? Or do they even care?

FuzzyLobster wrote:I'm honestly surprised. Turns out the main concern of voters isn't "the economy." "Hatred of people who aren't you" (and I'm pretty sure racism, based on that one ad) and "not wanting to go outside in the rain," take priority.

They do all realize that recessions kill vulnerable people, right? Or do they even care?

Welllll, it's probably extreme to suggest that 51% of the voters were racists, which isn't to say that a decent dose of xenophobia motivated some people's decisions.

evillaugh wrote:Welp. Looks like 51.9% voted leave, the majority of which are over the age of 65. Trump has approved, which should have been a definite warning sign. Brits' first googling choice is 'what happens of you leave the EU' and Cameron has resigned.

What a fun day for all.

And it's only so close because of Scotland! England was 54% in favour of Leave.



I must say I'm mixed. It was stupid for the UK to leave, but it is a bit satisfying to watch the British shoot themselves in the face. :P

Well no, by the sounds of it a lot of them were swindled by false promises from the Leave side; they didn't realize that they'll (primarily working class people) be the ones most negatively effected. But I've heard a lot of really disgusting political rhetoric lately, by Trump and a lot of extreme right wing groups across Europe, and I'm pissed off that people seem to actually be listening.

And it baffles me that older generations in countries with aging populations are always the ones most vehemently against immigration; do y'all think I want to support you all by myself? Exactly who do they think is going to be able the economy going when they all retire at once, after having made it pretty damn difficult for my generation to get off to a good start in our working lives? And then we get blamed for being 'lazy' and 'entitled' for nebulous reasons.

Well, old people grew up in such a different time. Interracial relationships were a scandal. Hell even my catholic mother and protestant father's marriage was scorned. Poor old saps are growing old and bitter about the economy and social change; can you blame them for taking up the reactionary cause?

There's been a spectacular volume of lies and xenophobia from the Leave campaign. Some of the lies have been withdrawn already - from the £350 million a week for the NHS claim (backpedalled the morning after) to reducing immigration (backpedalled within a day). Cynical and manipulative. The xenophobia has been genuinely disturbing; Farage's "breaking point" poster with the queue of dark-skinned people for example.

Voting Leave correlates with a few demographic groups:
1) The old.
2) The poor and working classes, ironically those most supported by the EU (Cornwall and Wales, both Leave majorities, have already been seeking assurances that all their nice money from the EU isn't going to go away...).
3) Related to the above, but the uneducated.
4) Those from areas with fewer immigrants.

As for the economy, Michael Gove (prominent Leave politician) said it best: “I think people in this country have had enough of experts.” People don't understand or care about the economy and they're not interested in what people who might understand have to say. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06 ... ense-than/ Scroll down to the Leave and Remain voter trust for different groups in that article; Leave supporters just don't trust anyone.

Another good question is what will happen to Gibraltar seeing as it's british zone in an all-spanish land, benefitting from spanish healthcare and airports. If Spain tries to take Gibraltar back, it's going to cause a ton of issues, if they don't travel and borders must be taken into consideration.

Also, good on Scottland for hating Trump. Maybe he should have visited all of the UK to inspire more hate to his side.

I'm playing devil's advocate here, but Michael Gove's quote is taken out of context. The full quote is "I think that the people of this country have had enough of experts from organisations with acronyms saying they know what is best and getting it consistently wrong"

Of course "consistently" wrong is a bit harsh, but the world's economy has been struggling since 2008 despite expert advice, so one can understand the frustration there...

evillaugh wrote:Another good question is what will happen to Gibraltar seeing as it's british zone in an all-spanish land, benefitting from spanish healthcare and airports. If Spain tries to take Gibraltar back, it's going to cause a ton of issues, if they don't travel and borders must be taken into consideration.

Yeah, there's a reason Gibraltar voted 80-something percent Remain...

Didier wrote:I'm playing devil's advocate here, but Michael Gove's quote is taken out of context. The full quote is "I think that the people of this country have had enough of experts from organisations with acronyms saying they know what is best and getting it consistently wrong"

Of course "consistently" wrong is a bit harsh, but the world's economy has been struggling since 2008 despite expert advice, so one can understand the frustration there...

I don't think the full quote changes the context at all in this case. He's suggesting that experts are always wrong and not worth listening to, which is the same sentiment as the shortened version.

Sure it does! "I've had enough of experts" is just unbridled anti-intellectualism. "I've had enough of experts who've gotten it wrong before" suggests he's against a subset of unreliable people who claim to be experts but really aren't.

Of course virtually every organisation was against a Brexit, so there's no subset to speak of.

Look on the bright side though! PM Boris Johnson and President Trump will get along so well!

Well congratulations to him then, because the experts have been exactly right so far, as his side does nothing but backtrack on all of the promises they made. :P

wrote:Look on the bright side though! PM Boris Johnson and President Trump will get along so well!

ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh