YES, RESEARCH FOR A FICTICIOUS NOVEL!!!

Stroud does research. Every fiction author worth a grain of salt does research to make their novel as 'real' as possible. You wouldn't want historical fiction to be written by someone who knew absolutely nothing about the period would you? Even if they included prissy vampires? It helps your story's world and characters have depth and realism, make some sort of sense, and BE BELIEVABLE! It doesn't matter if it's about the supernatural, or romance. The characters and the setting should seem like they could actually exist.

Then you've got Meyer who, as an example, set her story in Forks, Washington because that's what she found when she googled "Rainiest Place on Earth." She never bothered even learning anything else about the town. That is sloppy writing. When I buy a book, I want to know that the author has put in as much effort as possible to make it the best it can be.

And creativity? My baby sister has creativity. Doesn't make her an author.

I find it hard to disagree with you on many points. But sometimes, it is better to think out your own ideas, note it down & then research. Because once you have read some other person's ideas (cause fictional stuff are always based on someone's thoughts & not on proven facts), it tends to stick in your head and, trust me, you start thinking only along that line. It is hard to come up with anything new or original then. This has happened with many scientists too, so it wouldn't be difficult for the writers to fall into the same trap.

All competent writing needs research. This is a standard, not a theorem, not a theory, not a rule of thumb, a basic standard for all writing. competent

/discussion

If you want crappy writing or something to just make big bucks than go bugger off with this standard.

Nah, only competent writing needs research :P

The line of contradiction you're treading is so remarkably thin I don't know whether to applaud you or be ashamed.

Either way, the Cirque Du Freak flick looks promising, if goofy.
9 comes out on the 9th, going to see it.
Avatar still looks awesome.
Seeing Gamer tomorrow.
-looks at time-
Make that later today.
The Road, Whiteout, Jennifer's Body...
Uh, and some others.
</end>

It's not contradiction :P
Competent writing needs research, incompetent writing doesn't.
Sounds fine to me.

Dansariki wrote:The line of contradiction you're treading is so remarkably thin I don't know whether to applaud you or be ashamed.

Care to elaborate?

"Throws laptop at wall in violent reaction to philosophical minefield that is the pure idea that competence can be perceived as something that’s a constant instead of a opinion"

Myre is a very competent author, she understands peoples emotions, she understands desire, she plays with words, makes them perform for her, and she’s quit clearly published* and popular, these things make her a VERRY competent romance author. This is what you don’t get, its not primarily a vampire series its a ROMANCE series, the fact that some of theme are sparkly vampires and wolf spirit werewolf’s only enhances the plot, its not a historical series in which accuracy is essential, the reason why its loved so much is that even though its so quit clearly not real it creates a sense of it being real which is why she’s such a genius writer.

But before i get carried away on my little rant, why don’t we consider why people read fiction books? the answer is escapism as harsh as it seems we all read to get away from reality, to live another life, to experience are wildest desires and to are deepest emotions. Myres books take us on a rollercoaster of these emotions and experiences and its not because of the sparkly vampires^ but because of the love, fear, anger, and just in general pure emotion which the twilight series make us feel.

but really why do you hate the twilight series, and yes from what i can see that’s what it is a irrational hate of a series of books that have hurt no one, really if you must hate certain books why not hate something that’s done something to deserve it, ever read lord of the flies, it caused the rape of a 15 year old girl and the suffering of millions of G.C.S.E. students for years.

well I guess what I am trying to say is that what you’ve done is come at this book with cold logic and closed minds$ its not about logic its about love and emotion, passion, desire and a struggle agents said desires, and if its the defecation of the idea of vampires you annoyed about, ever watched a vampire anime? try trinity blood certain types of them can make blades come from out side of there skin, others can breather fire, or control the dead corpses of others and one can even extend her limbs to really rather disturbing limits. Ideas of things change and evolve, like people or language, we’ve just got to live with it.

thanks for letting me shout at you, sorry for some of the bad spelling.

* surely by definition this makes her a competent author, the ability not only to impress an publisher who’s entire occupation and lifestyle relays on finding good and competent authors but to impresses and entertain a vast population of readers, i know some of you here weren’t impressed but a lot more were.
^it helps though
$ I am starting to sound a bit weird here but stick with me.

Meyer is a strict Mormon, she wouldn't notice romance if it started humping her leg.

Now then, serious points. Being published is a measure of how well a publisher thinks something is going to sell, not a measure of how good they think it is. Twilight sells like fertiliser in Northern Ireland because it appeals to vast legions of teenage girls with its perfect romance and perfect man and perfect vampires (and overuse of a handful of words, speaking of "perfect"). It has the literary value of Dianetics, but it doesn't need literary value to sell, and publishers are ultimately companies and out to make money.

We're not asking for perfect accuracy and encyclopaedic research (it is, after all, a fantasy book), but actually doing some research would have been nice. When the writer publicly admits she did no research on the place she set her book or established conventions about vampires and werewolves, you've got a problem. If you don't want to research your setting then make something up, don't pick a real place and get it completely wrong. Similarly, if you're going to use and established concept like vampires, at least have the courtesy to read a few vampire classics! Go ahead and deviate from the tropes if you feel it'll fit your story better, but pay some basic respect to the conventions, most of which are there for a reason.

We're not claiming Twilight hurts us, but it is intensely irritating when everyone and their dogs are rabbiting on about how good it is all the time, especially how bloody perfect Edward is, when much like Meyer, they could do with reading a few other books.

"ever read lord of the flies, it caused the rape of a 15 year old girl" Horse droppings. I have no idea what case you're referring to, but the idea that it could have been caused by Lord of the Flies is ridiculous. Just because the perpetrator read it or even blamed his actions on it doesn't mean it's the cause, and it's a foolish denial of the real issues to pretend it is.
I don't care for the book either, but I do understand why it's on literature syllabuses, namely, because it is a work of literature, not pop trash.

And finally... sparkly vampires is the most ridiculous concept ever and I simply cannot take them seriously. Could she not have found some slightly less daft way that her vampires show up in the sun? Seriously. Sparkles. ...

Sentynel wrote:and their dogs are rabbiting on

:blink:
:P

Anyway, the sparklyness was obviously to appeal even more to moronic teenage girls...

Sentynel wrote:Meyer is a strict Mormon, she wouldn't notice romance if it started humping her leg.

Now then, serious points. Being published is a measure of how well a publisher thinks something is going to sell, not a measure of how good they think it is. Twilight sells like fertiliser in Northern Ireland because it appeals to vast legions of teenage girls with its perfect romance and perfect man and perfect vampires (and overuse of a handful of words, speaking of "perfect"). It has the literary value of Dianetics, but it doesn't need literary value to sell, and publishers are ultimately companies and out to make money.

We're not asking for perfect accuracy and encyclopaedic research (it is, after all, a fantasy book), but actually doing some research would have been nice. When the writer publicly admits she did no research on the place she set her book or established conventions about vampires and werewolves, you've got a problem. If you don't want to research your setting then make something up, don't pick a real place and get it completely wrong. Similarly, if you're going to use and established concept like vampires, at least have the courtesy to read a few vampire classics! Go ahead and deviate from the tropes if you feel it'll fit your story better, but pay some basic respect to the conventions, most of which are there for a reason.

We're not claiming Twilight hurts us, but it is intensely irritating when everyone and their dogs are rabbiting on about how good it is all the time, especially how bloody perfect Edward is, when much like Meyer, they could do with reading a few other books.

"ever read lord of the flies, it caused the rape of a 15 year old girl" Horse droppings. I have no idea what case you're referring to, but the idea that it could have been caused by Lord of the Flies is ridiculous. Just because the perpetrator read it or even blamed his actions on it doesn't mean it's the cause, and it's a foolish denial of the real issues to pretend it is.
I don't care for the book either, but I do understand why it's on literature syllabuses, namely, because it is a work of literature, not pop trash.

And finally... sparkly vampires is the most ridiculous concept ever and I simply cannot take them seriously. Could she not have found some slightly less daft way that her vampires show up in the sun? Seriously. Sparkles. ..

"Takes DEEP DEEP Breath"

Ok im going to work from the bottom of your post up here, Sparkling vampires, really does it at all matter if they sparkle, vampires for all we know could turn to paper the minute they hit sun, if they egsisted. Sparkling makes them difrent from are preconceived idea of vampires and it makes them better, the changes make them more human, and in a strange way more god like, its part of there charm.

Lord of the flies (To me THE worst written book in the history of books on the school syllabus). First of it was the author who raped the girl and because of this starting next year the book is no longer on the sylabsis, but your not getting my point, Lord of the flies is probably the most cynical look at humanity, its sick and twisted.. ( i go on for a while so I cut this bit out), but any way what im saying is there are worse books to moan and grown about.

The irritating ness of twilight lovers.
....Why don’t you just tell them to go out and read some difrent books or ignore them, instead of attacking it. if you don’t like it fine but you don’t have to try and spoil it for others. remember not all people who enjoy twilight are like that.

she did pay the respect to the conventions, they still drink blood don’t they? this is what fundamentally makes them vampire correct? even with out research she still made some very amazing and rather believable books.

Has there ever been a more cynical look at literature?
Teenage girls loved it for what it is, and the only resion you’ve been attacking twilight is because they love it and like to talk about it? Now i suggest that you think about that.

to finish it all of
Can you please give me some really serious reasons why you don’t like it apart from its popular, difrent and that people enjoy reading it? Incidentally what do you think of the Harry potter books?

Alec wrote:"Takes DEEP DEEP Breath"

Ok im going to work from the bottom of your post up here, Sparkling vampires, really does it at all matter if they sparkle, vampires for all we know could turn to paper the minute they hit sun, if they egsisted. Sparkling makes them difrent from are preconceived idea of vampires and it makes them better, the changes make them more human, and in a strange way more god like, its part of there charm.

Lord of the flies (To me THE worst written book in the history of books on the school syllabus). First of it was the author who raped the girl and because of this starting next year the book is no longer on the sylabsis, but your not getting my point, Lord of the flies is probably the most cynical look at humanity, its sick and twisted.. ( i go on for a while so I cut this bit out), but any way what im saying is there are worse books to moan and grown about.

The irritating ness of twilight lovers.
....Why don’t you just tell them to go out and read some difrent books or ignore them, instead of attacking it. if you don’t like it fine but you don’t have to try and spoil it for others. remember not all people who enjoy twilight are like that.

she did pay the respect to the conventions, they still drink blood don’t they? this is what fundamentally makes them vampire correct? even with out research she still made some very amazing and rather believable books.

Has there ever been a more cynical look at literature?
Teenage girls loved it for what it is, and the only resion you’ve been attacking twilight is because they love it and like to talk about it? Now i suggest that you think about that.

to finish it all of
Can you please give me some really serious reasons why you don’t like it apart from its popular, difrent and that people enjoy reading it? Incidentally what do you think of the Harry potter books?

To be honest you don't need to have read other books to know that vampires drink blood...

And Lord of the Flies is indeed a cynical way to look at humanity. And it is sick and twisted. Because humanity is cynical and sick and twisted.

wrote:Has there ever been a more cynical look at literature?
Teenage girls loved it for what it is, and the only resion you’ve been attacking twilight is because they love it and like to talk about it? Now i suggest that you think about that.

Lot's of people just attack twilight because teen girls love it. But I sincerely think it blows has incompetent writing.

And Harry Potter is hardly perfect. But at least, to me, it's competent.

---

Zomg Quote mountain part 3.

Sparkling is about the daftest thing a vampire could possibly do in the sun. Burn up, turn to stone, feel pain, even just look extremely sickly, fine, but sparkle.

Can we have, I dunno, some sources for this? Best I can find is a biographer claiming Golding attempted rape as an undergraduate, which is hardly a reliable source, and was long before he wrote Lord of the Flies. I can't find any evidence for it being removed from the syllabus either.

Yes, it's an extremely cynical book. No, I don't like it, because it struck me as so cynical as to be completely unrealistic. But it is undoubtedly an influential work of literature and it is important that people on literature courses be exposed to negative books as well as positive books and anything else in between. Disliking the book is not the same as it being a bad book. Also, Lord of the Flies is not hyped to Venus and back by every other frigging person as the best thing to happen to literature since the printing press.

Twilight, on the other hand, is an exceptionally bad book. The writing is awful. The prose is blindingly purple, the characters thin and unrealistic (see: perfect bloody Edward), the romance ridiculous (Bella likes Edward because he's attractive. Edward likes Bella because she's obsessed with him and he can't read her mind. They like Muse. They have absolutely nothing else in common. They have nothing to talk about beyond each other), and the messages it sends are bizarre and slightly frightening (Bella loses Edward. The book goes blank for pages. Also, imprinting on a baby? How creepy is that?). They certainly amaze me. They're about as believable as Comical Ali.

Vampires drink blood, sure. They also have strengths and weaknesses, as anybody or anything does. Twilight's vampires just have strengths, which is daft.

I attack Twilight because of the aforementioned awfulness. If you can tell me it's fantastic I am entirely allowed, and highly likely, to tell you that it's not.

Harry Potter is a lot better than Twilight. They're hardly the best books ever either, but I don't regret reading them, and I did finish the series (though it did go downhill after about the third book).

"Lord of the Flies is indeed a cynical way to look at humanity. And it is sick and twisted. Because humanity is cynical and sick and twisted."
really? are we that sick and twisted? well i cant be botherd with this, but nero its nice to know that you dont like it becuase you think its bad, i personally dont like HP but hay.

Alec wrote:"Lord of the Flies is indeed a cynical way to look at humanity. And it is sick and twisted. Because humanity is cynical and sick and twisted."
really? are we that sick and twisted?

Oh trust me fella. You're in for a shock.

Alec wrote:But before i get carried away on my little rant, why don’t we consider why people read fiction books? the answer is escapism as harsh as it seems we all read to get away from reality, to live another life, to experience are wildest desires and to are deepest emotions.

Uh.
For the record, it's also shiny.
Shiny covers help.
:D
Felt like short circuiting that whole thing.

I'd say she's an alright author, from what little I've read (I'll end up reading them anyways), just Mary-Sue, to use a friend's words.

Heh, he is right. Twilight sells because it is escapist fantasy that scratched an ich. And a good PR campaign.

I've seen repeats of this damn argument dozens of times, usually eloquent hater vs idiot fanboy, but also reversed a couple of times. Wonder why the eloquents never go toe to toe. Meh, the fan reaction is so extreme of late because the anti fans are loud and everywhere. And it is damn extreme. They've founded a religion with Myer as the messaih! And the number of people who think stalking = love is... quite large.

wrote:Oh trust me fella. You're in for a shock.

When plumbing the depths of depravity, one must always remember to come up for air. Nero.



From a literary standpoint, yeah, the book is badly written. Too much... gushing.

wrote:she did pay the respect to the conventions, they still drink blood don’t they? this is what fundamentally makes them vampire correct? even with out research she still made some very amazing and rather believable books.

All they do is eat raw meat. They have no fangs, they sparkle in the light, they can read minds and run really fast. Oh, and they're pale.

Those are not vampires. You cannot call someone a mermaid when they hate water, hate fish, have no tail, don't know how to swim and isn't really a mermaid at all.

wrote:to finish it all of
Can you please give me some really serious reasons why you don’t like it apart from its popular, difrent and that people enjoy reading it? Incidentally what do you think of the Harry potter books?

It had no plot, the characters are terrible, she abuse the thesaurus and destroyed the whole idea of vampires.

Oh, and, she makes little girls think it's okay to be abused by their crazy boyfriends.

----------

EDIT: Is anyone excited about the informant? I reeeeally wanna see it. There's another movie that I wanted to see but I can't remember it...

Bah, it fails at escapism as well. Where's the sex scenes? They save themselves for marriage....and then Edward bites a pillow?

(Just sayin'.)

Post wrote:When plumbing the depths of depravity, one must always remember to come up for air. Nero.

Only if one needs to.

And, nice Mwamba.
Tee Hee.
:D