Haha, I thought of that too. I figured Whitewell would pick up a chair and beat John over the head with it.

Whitewell's experience would probably lend her some measure of faster reaction time and command, wouldn't it?
But then again, John's been in some situations too.
Like, that list at the beginning of PG.
That I don't feel like getting.

Whitwell for about three years after the events of the last book, after that Mandrake's talent would come to the fore and Whitwell will have declined with age somewhat.

Whatever that means, I never could pin down her age in the book.
I had it at a very fit late 40s.

Older, I think. Is 40 old? I would say 50's.

My parents are 40-41, it's getting there.

Yeah, somewhere around there.
Long enough to have considerable reputation and gathered political clout, yet not old enough for it to be commented on.

I always thought mid sixties to be honest, Forty is very young for a politician and would rasie questions of experience i.e Obama (obviously real world comparisons are different but their all we have to go on)

Oh.
Huh.
Good point.

I'll shift to mid-50s, many polititians attain power by then.
;D

I would think that John Mandrake would win, if he had his djinn bundle - Mwamba, Cormo, Asco, Hodge, and Bart. They'd beat out Shubit.
Shubit doesn't seem to be the intelligent sort - in GE, he was portrayed and bumbling, obedient, following orders, etc. Bart commented "He'll have forgotten his charge."
So I think Bart's intelligence could let Mandrake win, and it would be a real breeze if they had water or earth handy.

But Shubit didn't forget his charge. Bart just assumed that. And 5 on 1 would be unfair.
But if Bart is fighting Shubit, Bart would win.

Depends on what you mean. In a plain duel, Whitwell is just so powerful Nathaniel would have no chance. But in a warlike scenario, both trying to bring eachother down, Nat is so creative and resourceful that he could probably take her down without fighting her.

Shubit isn't an afrit, is was a misake of JS's. But still I think that JS just mixed up who the afrit was in Ptolemys gate not that she didn't really summon an afrit. And JS said that Nathaniel is just lazy not having higher spirits than the Ascobal/Mwamba/Hodge/Cormo + Barti lot. He summons them extreamly easily to.

Chiz wrote:Shubit isn't an afrit, is was a misake of JS's. But still I think that JS just mixed up who the afrit was in Ptolemys gate not that she didn't really summon an afrit. And JS said that Nathaniel is just lazy not having higher spirits than the Ascobal/Mwamba/Hodge/Cormo + Barti lot. He summons them extreamly easily to.

Maybe that bear afrit was not Shubbit, maybe Whitwell just likes bears and makes all her spirits look like them.

lol. A lot of work for appearances.

Mandrake could, I think, pull off two Afrits. Whitewell, mid-to-late fifties, ditto. Two afrits apiece of a handful of djinn for each. Mandrake I could see, sitting back and sending his troop in, then getting up, worried, as Whitewell's servants wound two. Even match, with John winning through endurance.

wrote:depends on who he summons, we aren't told quite how powerful an afrit Shubit is but were led to believe he is at the higher end of the spectrum.

also does Whitwell have access to all the artifacts in the tower of London?

There's nothing that indicates that Whitwell's Afrit was high or low end. It's pure speculation. As for Tower of London artifacts..I wasn't aware that there were any.

wrote:Yes, but if so, so would John. When I asked this, I meant 1 on 1 with whatever they have, not counting items.
If either had the staff and could control it, no contest. Probably.
'Less someone gets around... whatever.
Nonetheless, Whitewell's afrit is probably hi-end, enough to give Nouda pause, at the very least. John's djinn probably wouldn't be enough, if Honorious is anything to go by.
So, would John be able to summon a significant Afrit? Two?

Afrits are vastly outclassed by Greater Spirits. Even the strongest Afrit can't faze a Greater Spirit. Afrit vs Marid, totally possible. But a whole different class that far surpasses Marids? Just not possible. Nouda was just surprised by the appearance of the Afrit and Whitwell's escape attempt. That's all there was to it. It took one detonation from Nouda's pinky finger to overcome the full defensive power of the Afrit, leading to Whitwell's death.

Yeah I agree that it depends on what spirit Mandrake would summon. But if the fight is unprepared for, Whitwell might win, since an Afrit is already at her command, and heaven knows what else, while Nat's only got a few djinni who will fight with each other if given the slightest opportunity. I don't think Nat's djinnis could survive whitwell's afrit, although Barti's cunning might save the day for Mandrake. Who knows what dear old Barti is conjuring up his sleeve? :)

he can win if he joins with barti in a human body because at least they can control at least 2 marids at the same time like what they do with gladstone's staff

Well Mandrake models his style after hers I think. Bartimaeus stated that a lot of Nat's preening mannerisms were just like Lovelace in GE and I think it's implied he switches more like Whitewell. Like it was mentioned in PG that both kept their chairs undecorated in the general council and such.

Whitewell is more disciplined as a veteran. Things may have changed but within Mandrake's 17 years of life she would win hands down.

Id like to say that Nat would win hands down :) just cause I want him to and that he hasn't had need for testing his limit yet.
We dont even know how these duels work, would Jess be much benifited from experience? And I think Nat has plenty of experience on quick thinking in a fight at least, unless other ministers go through all the attacks and things he went through. And even if he hasn't used a certain powerful spell before that would come in handy in the fight and Whitwell has, I think that Nats read almost every magical book possible by now and hes good at doing things right the first time so he would be alright.