And if physically beating Verroq doesn't do the trick, Bart could always just turn into a venomous snake or something and bite him.
Bart always talks about how small he can go, but what about big? Could he take the form of a giant and pound the crap out of Verroq?

Yes, he can. Not that the pro Verroqs will ever get that.

Verroq is good, but let's face it, Barty's better.

Yeah, because he's the main character and Stroud controls him.

But even apart from that.

Apollo wrote:Yeah, because he's the man character and Stroud controls him.

:D
I think, weapons or materials of any sort(be it for offence or defence) should not be allowed. Coz Ag would push the battle very much in Verroq's favour. Bart's magic will be made null & void by Verroq's resistance to it. So fight depends solely on physical prowess & ingenuity. Bart has an upper hand in those.

Barti does actually say there are limits to how big they can make themselves. No giants for you. And even if Barti could turn himself into one, he'd still be unable to direct damage Verroq because of his resistance.

How so? Whatever form he takes, it won't be 'magical', right? Only if he uses magic will he be at a disadvantage.

He could turn into some poisonous insect and infect the merc, and then trap him somehow and then fly away, waiting for said merc to die.

Feh,
I was thinking amulet-style, which is strictly defensive...

No.
He could go all giant and beat Verroq to a bloody pulp, sheer physical force isn't guarded against with resilience.

Dansariki wrote:Feh,
I was thinking amulet-style, which is strictly defensive...

OK, how about NOTHING is with them?

That works too, Dansariki.

Question, can spirits take cellular forms?

Dansariki wrote:He could go all giant and beat Verroq to a bloody pulp, sheer physical force isn't guarded against with resilience.

He can't apply force directly to Verroq though; it's clear when Verroq's attacked by the guard shadows trying to raid the government vault that they can't hurt him. He could do the drop-a-heavy-object trick again, just drop it with more force, but as I said earlier he can't become a giant.

Ah, there goes our brilliant theories. But Bart could turn into a huge eagle, clamp the Verroq in his claws & drop him over a mountain edge. Or peck him to death.

nathanielandbartimaeus wrote:Ah, there goes our brilliant theories. But Bart could turn into a huge eagle, clamp the Verroq in his claws & drop him over a mountain edge. Or peck him to death.

Hmm. That brings up the question of WHERE they're fighting...

Odd how no one brought that up...

Yeah, we get too focussed sometimes.

To Sentynel - Verroq was knocked out with just physical force, it stands to reason he could be killed via head trauma.
Besides, the wraiths (or whatever they were, I like wraiths) in the vault didn't have physical forms, and so could only use magic.
That's why they could only affect his clothes, not him.

To Apollo - Doubt it. When Barti becomes a head lice (or something like that) in AoS to avoid the Afrit, he says, "Why? Because it was about as small as I could go".

Nero wrote:OK, how about NOTHING is with them?

What?

Dansariki wrote:To Sentynel - Verroq was knocked out with just physical force, it stands to reason he could be killed via head trauma.
Besides, the wraiths (or whatever they were, I like wraiths) in the vault didn't have physical forms, and so could only use magic.
That's why they could only affect his clothes, not him.

As I said before, Kitty's resistance killed the mouler just by her touching it. Barti can't directly hurt Verroq because Verroq's resistance will hurt him, and I'm inferring from the guard shadows that he can't directly hurt Verroq anyway. Hence requiring some sort of object to throw at him/hit him with, but there's no weapons.

Fah!
Yes, but being near so much silver in GE hurt him, and he bore the pain.
Pain doesn't mean invulnerability.
You've got me on that, but I still think Bart could do it through physical force, the way the wraiths couldn't and Faquarl demonstrated.

Faquarl was in a HUMAN BODY. This raises the final question: Would Verroq's natural resistance to magical beings be enough to protect him from a plain and simple beating from Bart? Or would Bart simply explode as did that mouler when it attacked Kitty?

I think we also need to determine WHERE the fight is taking place, this is important. Could there be any missiles of any kind (e.g a statue, a brick etc.)?

Also, there is the matter of (as I think, Apollo? said) whether Bart could turn into, say, a venomous snake and bite Verroq.

However, despite all theories and discussion, I think there are just too many variables in this hypothetic fight for us to determine a definite winner.

No, no, no.
First of all, the pipsqueak that Kitty inadvertently killed shouldn't be compared to Bartimaeus.
Period.
Second, Faquarl merely said that "being in a human body helps, too." Not that it was crucial.

Missiles would count as weapons, so no.

Bartimaeus could, of course, turn into something like that and attack, but he wouldn't for two reasons -
1) Verroq would no doubt be able to defend animals easier than Barti's usual Gargoyle or wisp of smoke due to (and)
(2) turning into an animal limits what he can do, so that's a no-no as well.

I think I've said that somewhere along the line, but no matter, it's fun to debate.

Ah, finally! A half-decent argument! Thankyou!

Firstly, I was not COMPARING Bartimaeus to the mouler Kitty destroyed by wrestling it. I was simply suggesting that Verroq may be able to have this effect (to whatever extent) on Bartimaeus, seeing as Verroq's resistance is quite a bit more powerful than Kitty's, hence being able to (maybe) destroy or damage higher spirits (such as Bartimaeus) by wrestling them. Understand?

I was aware of the quote: "Being in a human body helps, too." I was just saying that this may be more crucial than let on in the books if, of course, what I said in that first paragraph up there ^ is correct.

Weapons, weapons, weapons. You're saying that if they were fighting in, say, a brick house, and (hypothetically) Bartimaeus smashed the wall, grabbed a brick and lobbed it at Verroq, that could be termed as weapondry? I don't think so. I call it INGENUITY. Look it up.

The idea were Bartimaeus could turn into a dangerous animal is, I admit, unlikely and is sure to have its flaws. Just an idea. But I think to beat Verroq (as I have said many times), Bart would just have to beat him up (I don't think I can make it any simpler).
My main question was: Would Verroq's resistance to demons be enough to withstand (or defeat, even) Bartimaeus. By resistance I mean what I was talking about in the first paragraph.

I think reading over what I have said previously you will find that what I have said here corresponds with my other posts on this subject.

I would also just like to point out that what I said in my previous post was simply suggestions and theories. They were just to assist in the discussion by bringing new ideas and evidence.

But you are right about one thing, it IS fun to debate.