Spirit in Amulet > Ramuthra > Nouda. Enough said =D

Welcome back! Wow, you joined in Dec 2005!

Spirits in Amulet = Ramuthra, Ramuthra > Nouda =D

Wow, I came back to hear news about the new book and saw the thread I made three and a half years ago is still getting comments!
Nearly 10,000 views (second most in this section?) and 280+ comments! Easily my most sucessful thread on the internet ever and I didn't even know.

And first comment on page 20 :sun: dont I feel special now!

Welcome back!

Lord Nouda wrote:Spirit in Amulet > Ramuthra > Nouda. Enough said =D

Aren't we a little contradictory?

Ramuthra was more powerful than Nouda when Nouda was first summoned, but once Nouda ate all those people he became more powerful.

He seemed bloated and slower. More powerful, maybe. The question for that is, is his body deteriorating because he's in there, or because he's gaining it power from eating people.

Ramuthra...it took several high class magicians to summon it whereas Nouda was summoned and supressed for a short time by Makepeace.

Somehow there might actually be different classes of Greater Spirits. Some Greater Spirits (Nouda for example) are destruction-types: extremely powerful magical attack/defense whereas some manipulate the elements/disperses lower level magic (Ramuthra) or negates extremely high levels of magic (Amulet of Samarkand Spirit). Then there's a entirely new class of Higher Spirits of which Uraziel is the only member. He can open gates directly to the Other Place and summon any class of spirit.

Personally I think the Amulet Spirit is the antithesis of Ramuthra's type. Both are about the same level of strength, though the Amulet Spirit has to be stronger to be able to handle Ramuthra's powers without a scratch on the Wearer. Nouda being a pure destruction type is a lower level. So yeah my original statement stands:

Amulet Spirit > Ramuthra > Nouda

Uraziel pwns all!!!

I seem to remember something in one of the books stating that eating other beings only replenishes the essence, it doesn't actually increase base strength since essence depletes the longer one is away from the Other Place. There's a ceiling cap for each spirit's power.

wrote:Welcome back! Wow, you joined in Dec 2005!

Yeah I was one of the original members when forum opened. New book brought me back =P

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Daydream wrote:Ramuthra...it took several high class magicians to summon it whereas Nouda was summoned and supressed for a short time by Makepeace.

Summoning a demon doesn't take much strength. But you do need a lot of skill/strength to control a demon and bind it to your will. The stronger the demon, the more strain is put on the human body/mind. That is why the lower magicians don't go around summoning djinni/afrits every other day and even the strongest magicians rarely use marids. Jenkins was able to summon an afrit, something that should have been beyond him normally since he lacks the skill to control the higher level demons but for the fact that he mistakenly thought his body would have been able to confine the demon and bend it to his will with mindpower alone.

Unless I'm mistaken the summoning horn is to recall a spirit that already exists in the human world from a pentacle not from the Other Place. Otherwise, why even use 4 magicians? The guy holding the summoning horn should have been enough. It makes perfect sense that they've already summoned Ramuthra and are containing it in a temporary holding pentacle while waiting for the government to walk into their trap.

ramurtha took more people to summon therefore its more powerful

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ramurtha bends the elements while nouda is just another being

Rekhyt123 wrote:ramurtha took more people to summon therefore its more powerful

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ramurtha bends the elements while nouda is just another being

Like I stated above, if you had taken the time to read it, Ramuthra took at least 4 powerful magicians to summon (or it could have been 4 average magicians depending on your viewpoint). An average marid takes at least TWO magicians, a very strong magician (Whitwell) could summon one on his/her own, but only for a limited period of time due to the strain of maintaining the bonds enslaving the spirit (the stronger the class, the more power/control it takes). Nouda, being a class far above a Marid would have required at least 3-4 magicians to summon and keep it under control. Summoning a spirit into your body takes almost no effort. Any half-assed magician could do so as seen from Clives and the other very weak magician who summoned Mid-level Afrits and high level Djinni into their bodies when it's so far beyond their ability and skill level (to control/bind them normally).

Simply put, summoning spirits into your body requires far less effort than summoning them into a pentacle and THEN controlling them via a constant use of effort and concentration during the duration of the summoning since the body is the pentacle that keeps them "controlled" and the regular incantations are no longer needed and can be bypassed (as seen from the Makepeace summoning ritual of Nouda). Any half-baked apprentice could summon a demon, controlling them is another matter.

Nouda and Ramuthra are both Greater Spirits. I've theorized in my previous points regarding the notion that Ramuthra > Nouda, which would put both of us in agreement over the matter. The only beef I have is with the way you presented your argument. That's all. Just because Ramuthra could warp the elements (being new to the material world after all) does not mean that Nouda at one time would not have been able to do the same.

The spirits summoned into magicians' bodies are easy because they want to be summoned, more than any particularity of the summoning procedure. They're part of Faquarl/Nouda's grand world domination plan, with the magicians (initially, at least) conned into believing it's easy to control them, while in practice they have no control at all.

Ramuthra changed everything around him, so Nouda is less powerful

wrote:ramurtha took more people to summon therefore its more powerful
ramurtha bends the elements while nouda is just another being
Like I stated above, if you had taken the time to read it, Ramuthra took at least 4 powerful magicians to summon (or it could have been 4 average magicians depending on your viewpoint). An average marid takes at least TWO magicians, a very strong magician (Whitwell) could summon one on his/her own, but only for a limited period of time due to the strain of maintaining the bonds enslaving the spirit (the stronger the class, the more power/control it takes). Nouda, being a class far above a Marid would have required at least 3-4 magicians to summon and keep it under control. Summoning a spirit into your body takes almost no effort. Any half-assed magician could do so as seen from Clives and the other very weak magician who summoned Mid-level Afrits and high level Djinni into their bodies when it's so far beyond their ability and skill level (to control/bind them normally).

Simply put, summoning spirits into your body requires far less effort than summoning them into a pentacle and THEN controlling them via a constant use of effort and concentration during the duration of the summoning since the body is the pentacle that keeps them "controlled" and the regular incantations are no longer needed and can be bypassed (as seen from the Makepeace summoning ritual of Nouda). Any half-baked apprentice could summon a demon, controlling them is another matter.

Nouda and Ramuthra are both Greater Spirits. I've theorized in my previous points regarding the notion that Ramuthra > Nouda, which would put both of us in agreement over the matter. The only beef I have is with the way you presented your argument. That's all. Just because Ramuthra could warp the elements (being new to the material world after all) does not mean that Nouda at one time would not have been able to do the same.

That may be true but then again, Nouda wanted to be summoned into the human world. It only takes a small few words for the essence in the Other Place to feel the pull to the Earth. Because Nouda wanted to be summoned into the human world he wouldn't resist at all. I believe that if Nouda didn't want to be summoned it would take 4 or over.
But I do think Ramuthra was more powerful. I think if Ramuthra was summoned into a body, The body itself would be distorted and change it's elemental compound.

I think ramuthra will win if the two of them take a human body and one more question, if the spirit of amulet is the strongest why don't nathaniel use it to defeat nouda

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I think ramuthra will win if the two of them take a human body and one more question, if the spirit of amulet is the strongest why don't nathaniel use it to defeat nouda

Aggron wrote:I think ramuthra will win if the two of them take a human body and one more question, if the spirit of amulet is the strongest why don't nathaniel use it to defeat nouda

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I think ramuthra will win if the two of them take a human body and one more question, if the spirit of amulet is the strongest why don't nathaniel use it to defeat nouda

Because he wanted Kitty to survive plus I think he knew he was going to die because of the fatal wound that he had on his side.

well, if he use it kitty will survive too because the magic explosion will get sucked into the amulet

Aggron wrote:well, if he use it kitty will survive too because the magic explosion will get sucked into the amulet

Yeah but if he used the amulet the magical explosion would get sucked into the amulet and this would make the explosion from the staff not as catastrophic, would could give Nouda a chance to survive. He wanted to hit Nouda with everything that he had in his arsenal.

But nouda maybe will got sucked to the amulet to remember what bartimaeus says at the first book that he may got sucked by the amulet if he is too close with lovelace