Ditto. Like Dansariki said, Nat's better off dead. It would be a miracle if he actually did survive (that would be a dream coming true right there)...-0.000000001% of that happening though.

And you just joined here a few days ago right? Welcome!

Apollo wrote:like an encyclopedia of the world descirbed in the trilogy.

An encyclopedia narrated by Bartimaeus would be nice.

Yes! I hope Stroud makes an encyclopedia of what happened after Nat died. Bart, but of course, must narrate it. So, he must be summoned (sorry bart). We would then know what Nat achieved by his death.

Edit - Welcome stuffing & gershwin.

Welcome!

Ooh, thanks. I feel... welcomed. :D

I guess poor Bart does need to be summoned again so we can figure out what happened afterwards. I just hope it's some government official, and NOT Kitty(sorry to all you Kitty fans out there). I just really don't like her, and especially her relationship with Bartimaeus.

I heard somewhere that Stroud said he's NOT going to be making an encyclopedia-type book... or maybe that's just my imagination.

Like I keep sayin', the only way he could write another book would be stories from Bartimaeus' and other's lives, and an encyclopedia.

Repeating? Don't get heard a lot Dansariki? :P

Well apparently it's needed, sheesh.

Gershwin wrote: I just really don't like her, and especially her relationship with Bartimaeus.

I like her & her relationship with Bart. Still, u r forgiven :D .

Kitty's ok. Bart's relationship w/ Nat seems more interesting though.

While Stroud's writing the encyclopedia, Bart's snoozing off and enjoying his long-lasting vacation from Earth in the Other Place...

Having a bad day Dansariki?

?
I wasn't aware of giving the impression.

Should he really come back though? One of the reasons this series is so good, original and defining of class is because of the end. It was so originally constructed with the after math before the final act that your heart broke when you heard Kitty say "so much for your promises". Then as you live through those final few moments it really does touch you, you know he isn't going to make it and you know of his sacrifice, hence there is more emphasis placed on it. You really feel for it. It was this point, this integration where everything from the entire series comes together:
-Ptolemy's last act,
-Bartimaeus referring to Nathaniel as slightly less corrupt then the other magicians, -Nathaniels realization of what he had become,
-His willingness to sacrifice himself to save lives (remember he didn't have to do it then he could have waited for a later time when he was healed from his wounds and could have had a better strategy, but he did it because if Nouda was aloud to rampage on he would have killed millions), a magicians own life is worth more to him then the lives of countless other millions,
-Saving Bartimaeus the indication of friendship with a djinn which is unheard of
-Our realisation that he really is a hero (this was questionable until this point as he was a magician and his actions werent always perfect)
-Bartimaeus's final words
If he was resurrected it would take away that amazing ending. Lets face it, Jonathan Stroud orchestrated his death in an ingenious manner and taking that away will result in a second rate novel likened to the ending of Harry Potter. A good series/novel needs to be amazing not only from the start through the entire story, but it also needs to have a great ending. The Bartimaeus trilogy would be greatly lessened in my opinion if Nathaniel was brought back, but having said that I really did not want him to die and I do wish that he could be resurrected but my wish will contend with the greatness of the series and I really don't want that. Just my 2 cents.

P.S Greatest fantasy series ever written hands down. Right next to Lord of the Rings in my book shelf. Thats not an easy accomplishment.

Welcome!

But if Nat was resurrected, it won't just be the effect of the ending that will be affected. Nat himself could be possibly be affected by it too. If Nat ever came back again, he would still see the evils that are still there in the world, get influenced by it, and eventually he would turn back to greedy John Mandrake again. (No one can be entirely perfect and be free from evil, but those who try to do so can possibly be the closest to that point of perfection and purity.) The (possibly) only way Nat can REALLY himself is that he sacrifices his life to do a really good deed for others and goes to the other side so that he can be free from evil for all eternity.

And by doing that, JS has shown, like many other good authors out there, how powerful love can really be. Of course it's a great series, who here would say that it's not? :D

I'm not so sure if he'd go back to 'evil'.
He comitted suicide, so save potentially billions.
That'd going to affect him, if he were to come back.

Dansariki wrote: I'm not so sure if he'd go back to 'evil'.
He comitted suicide, so save potentially billions.
That'd going to affect him, if he were to come back.

I agree with you but I wouldn't call it suicide. I'd call it more of a sacrifice.

Same thing.
The concept of self-sacrifice is suicide with a cherry on top...

Blieze wrote:Should he really come back though? One of the reasons this series is so good, original and defining of class is because of the end. It was so originally constructed with the after math before the final act that your heart broke when you heard Kitty say "so much for your promises". Then as you live through those final few moments it really does touch you, you know he isn't going to make it and you know of his sacrifice, hence there is more emphasis placed on it. You really feel for it. It was this point, this integration where everything from the entire series comes together:
-Ptolemy's last act,
-Bartimaeus referring to Nathaniel as slightly less corrupt then the other magicians, -Nathaniels realization of what he had become,
-His willingness to sacrifice himself to save lives (remember he didn't have to do it then he could have waited for a later time when he was healed from his wounds and could have had a better strategy, but he did it because if Nouda was aloud to rampage on he would have killed millions), a magicians own life is worth more to him then the lives of countless other millions,
-Saving Bartimaeus the indication of friendship with a djinn which is unheard of
-Our realisation that he really is a hero (this was questionable until this point as he was a magician and his actions werent always perfect)
-Bartimaeus's final words
If he was resurrected it would take away that amazing ending. Lets face it, Jonathan Stroud orchestrated his death in an ingenious manner and taking that away will result in a second rate novel likened to the ending of Harry Potter. A good series/novel needs to be amazing not only from the start through the entire story, but it also needs to have a great ending. The Bartimaeus trilogy would be greatly lessened in my opinion if Nathaniel was brought back, but having said that I really did not want him to die and I do wish that he could be resurrected but my wish will contend with the greatness of the series and I really don't want that. Just my 2 cents.

P.S Greatest fantasy series ever written hands down. Right next to Lord of the Rings in my book shelf. Thats not an easy accomplishment.

Bleize to the best forum on earth.
I completely agree with whatever you have said. Bringing Nat back would spoil the fabulous ending, but I wish he lived. Yiu know, the ending reminded me of a true life story. An auto driver had saved dozens of people during heavy floods in 2006. He worked for 8 hours, swimming & saving lives. The very next day, he died in a car accident. Nat's death seemed like that - not fair.

Hi, I'm new here.
Anyway, I just had my English final, so I'm feeling very retrospective today. Looking back on the ending of Gate, I think the decision to kill John Mandrake was an excellent one, as it brought about the end of the character who seemed to be the antagonist of the entire series; yet I am reluctant to accept that Nathaniel had to die. If Stroud makes a sequel, which, in all honesty, I hope he does, and he resurrects Nathaniel, the events that took place in the third book can be seen as the death of John Mandrake, and the re-birth of Nathaniel.
For those of you who have seen it, think of the ending of Fight Club. The narrator, confronted by an image of himself that he utterly despises, chooses the only option he has left; he puts the gun in his mouth and fires, nearly killing himself, and destroying the evil apparition. In much the same way, Nathaniel sees John Mandrake in the demon he is fighting, and he chooses to end his own life to kill Mandrake. If Stroud were to bring back Nathaniel, not only would his death mean something, but he would have victoriously slain his greatest foe, John Mandrake.
So, that's about all, I've gotta go do more final studying, but before I go, I must say, I am rather impressed by the plethora of emoticons you have here. Also, I use firefox, so this one is awesome:

Hope you have a good stay.
I never thought of it like that...that's clever. But then still, why resurrect Nat? He still dies without vain.
And you can thank the admins (Gladstone, Sentynel and Nathaniel) for the emoticons. :D