Good day to everyone here.

The Bartimaeus Trilogy was a literary find I stumbled upon while it was still in its earlier stages - I was off buying a huge pile of books in the bookstore and AoS managed to stumble its way into my pile - I didn't even realize it was there. Seeing as I had paid for it anyway, I decided to read it: good thing, too. It was absolutely brilliant, and I kept with the series until PG.

Now that I'm a Senior at my school, doing the IB Diploma Programme, the Bartimaeus Trilogy is on my list of "possibilities" to do my Extended Essay on - which, for those who are unfamiliar with the IB Programme, is a 4000 word essay on any subject and topic you choose. I chose to do my EE on English, and the Bartimaeus Trilogy is one of the series which I am considering doing my essay on.

I spoke to many English teachers concerning this idea, and I received mixed opinions. Some were completely against the idea, since the Bartimaeus Trilogy is classified under "Children's Novels", and they consider scholarly literature essays on such books to be near impossible. Others were more welcoming, implying that doing it on such books contained an element of risk, but would also bring in some originality. I remain undecided as to whether I should do my EE on the trilogy or not - and so I stumbled upon this forum during my various internet trawlings, and decided to ask a few questions here.

I. Do you think the Bartimaeus Trilogy holds enough literary value and qualities to hold up as the main focus of a 4000 word Literature essay?

-----> For reference, if I were to do my essay on this trilogy, I was thinking along the lines of how JS uses the story as a symbolistic, and cautionary, tale on
social class systems (i.e. Magicians and Spirits, Magicians and Commoners). I was really struck on how symbolistic the merging of spirit and human
in PG was (conflicting wills in Nouda etc resulted in downfall, harmony with Nathaniel and Bartimaeus resulted in victory, and so on, and this is
just one of the points I would like to make) Is this viable?

II. Has anyone here done any essays on the Bartimaeus Trilogy?

III. Is this thread in the right place? XD

Oh yeah, needless to say, I am very much new here, so don't be too harsh on me =P

Thanks for the time everybody! (Lengthy post, I know)

First things first, don't be put off by the "but it's a children's book" stuff. Writing an extended essay on actual children's books could be quite difficult, but Bartimaeus isn't. It's always annoyed me that it's classified as such - it might be suitable for children (and I think in places even that's debatable), but the books are full of political commentary and humour that are vastly beyond children's book level. Don't be put off by any teachers who haven't read it and are just going on the classification.
If they *have* read it and still think that, I might be inclined to take their opinion more seriously, but I think it's unlikely.

So, as you've probably gathered, yes, I do think you could do a 4,000 word essay on it without too much difficulty.

I've never written essays on it myself, but I haven't done English literature in years.

Yes, this thread is in the right place.

I agree with Sentynel on all positions. It is much to complex to be a simple children's novel. The only reason it is a children's novel is its fantasy component. But then look at LOTR...



This is a children's book.

Another component you could talk about is the coming of age of Nathaniel, how he slowly corrupted in society, in high class and then somewhat redeem yourself. Then, from this, a question you could debate is: did he truly redeem himself, or is an honourable death (if this is agreed upon) simply overrated?

Or how the cynics of Bartimaeus exist so often in our own society?

But really, I doubt you'll have trouble finding a good topic. Just look around these forum topics and you'll find pages upon pages of debates and comments. Though admittedly some are just flotsam and jetsam

Anyway, good luck if you decide upon Bartimaeus. I know of the IB and that essay is damn difficult.

wrote:First things first, don't be put off by the "but it's a children's book" stuff. Writing an extended essay on actual children's books could be quite difficult, but Bartimaeus isn't. It's always annoyed me that it's classified as such - it might be suitable for children (and I think in places even that's debatable), but the books are full of political commentary and humour that are vastly beyond children's book level. Don't be put off by any teachers who haven't read it and are just going on the classification.
If they *have* read it and still think that, I might be inclined to take their opinion more seriously, but I think it's unlikely.

I agree on all counts. It's simply that the Bartimaeus Trilogy is being compared to more established pieces of literature, and the things that I am being told are starting to scare me quite a bit and putting me off of it. However, I believe the important thing with essays is that you do it on something you are interested in - and the Bartimaeus Trilogy is certainly on the top of my list in that respect. Thanks for the advice, it's pulled me back together.

wrote:Another component you could talk about is the coming of age of Nathaniel, how he slowly corrupted in society, in high class and then somewhat redeem yourself. Then, from this, a question you could debate is: did he truly redeem himself, or is an honourable death (if this is agreed upon) simply overrated?

This is an interesting component of the book as well, which I failed to integrate into my research! Brilliant, nearly overlooked it. I could certainly tie that in with the master/servant relationship JS so dearly explored in this trilogy. Much thanks. And lol, that is most certainly the epitome of a children's book... cleared my doubts yet again with some much needed humour =P

pentiumxp4000 wrote:I agree on all counts. It's simply that the Bartimaeus Trilogy is being compared to more established pieces of literature, and the things that I am being told are starting to scare me quite a bit and putting me off of it. However, I believe the important thing with essays is that you do it on something you are interested in - and the Bartimaeus Trilogy is certainly on the top of my list in that respect. Thanks for the advice, it's pulled me back together.

On a slightly more meta level, consider the markers. After marking dozens of 4,000 word essays written on the recommended subjects by disinterested students, an essay written on something a bit different by someone who's genuinely enthusiastic about the subject is going to be a breath of fresh air, and interested markers give better grades.

Hmm. For fun I might just make my own essay and post it..

Though this means reading the books again. Though obviously not a bad thing, is time consuming.

Nero wrote:For fun I might just make my own essay

Consider carefully this statement.

Apollo wrote:

Nero wrote:For fun I might just make my own essay

Consider carefully this statement.

Hmm. That does seem screwed up doesn't it...

Let us know when you're finished. XD

Well, if you're writing a 4000 word essay for fun you probably have some sort of problem...

Honestly, if you think you can get enough content for the essay and make it an interesting read, I think you should write it. Better than writing it on something you don't enjoy as much.

Though I think that it's kind of unfair to children to say it shouldn't be classified as such, Sent. I know plenty of kids smart enough to understand the "political commentary and humor."

FuzzyLobster wrote:Though I think that it's kind of unfair to children to say it shouldn't be classified as such, Sent. I know plenty of kids smart enough to understand the "political commentary and humor."

Define: Kid.

I think this is definitely a viable idea, and a good one too. If you do end up writing the essay, I'd be really interested to read it!

I think that the reason the Bartimaeus Trilogy is considered some of the best children's/teen books out there is because behind all the action, adventure and magic, there is meaning, there is definitely commentary, perhaps not only on social class but also on literature (JS mentioned that he wrote the trilogy because the idea came into his head to reverse the traditional idea that the demon is in control of the magician, and not vice versa). Honestly, now that you've mentioned your possible topic, it makes me want to go write an essay on the trilogy too, incorporating some of the things I've mentioned ^^ and lots of information about the perception of 'magic' and 'magicians' in history.

If you decide to write this essay, good luck and enjoy! It sounds like a challenging but fun endeavor. :)

The Bartimaeus Trilogy should be classed as a work of fiction, not children's literature.
But, hey, it is.
That being as it is, I agree with everything posted above, and, while I'm not in the IB program (have friends who are, I'm near an AP diploma, for what it's worth) I think would be a good idea to make it fairly all-encompassing - not a problem in an essay like this.
Archetypes are always nice, as is the underlying mythology.
This was commented on by my mother after I asked her to read the trilogy (She loved it) and she went on quite a rant about Stroud, praising him for drawing from mythology (I particularly like the naming schemes) and his attention to detail in the government.
Stroud's use of alternate history, and fictional explanations for actual, but mysterious events (Atlantis and Nouda's hand in the destruction of the Aztecs) were some of my favorite aspects of it. The opening sequence in Golem's Eye and the flashbacks in Ptolemy's Gate were, by and large, my favorite parts of the series.
The nice thing about having the Master-Slave relationship throughout history allows for the cautionary tale you mentioned to applied to anything you can come up with - much of the Trilogy's idea and lessons work for history.
And... I caution against coming of age angle.
It's old.
Nice, but boring.
Least, says every english teacher I've had.

Stress detail.
Rosemary, Iron, Silver, Cat's sight on two planes, all of it.

Have fun, good luck.

Dansariki wrote:The Bartimaeus Trilogy should be classed as a work of fiction, not children's literature.
But, hey, it is.
That being as it is, I agree with everything posted above, and, while I'm not in the IB program (have friends who are, I'm near an AP diploma, for what it's worth) I think would be a good idea to make it fairly all-encompassing - not a problem in an essay like this.
Archetypes are always nice, as is the underlying mythology.
This was commented on by my mother after I asked her to read the trilogy (She loved it) and she went on quite a rant about Stroud, praising him for drawing from mythology (I particularly like the naming schemes) and his attention to detail in the government.
Stroud's use of alternate history, and fictional explanations for actual, but mysterious events (Atlantis and Nouda's hand in the destruction of the Aztecs) were some of my favorite aspects of it. The opening sequence in Golem's Eye and the flashbacks in Ptolemy's Gate were, by and large, my favorite parts of the series.
The nice thing about having the Master-Slave relationship throughout history allows for the cautionary tale you mentioned to applied to anything you can come up with - much of the Trilogy's idea and lessons work for history.
And... I caution against coming of age angle.
It's old.
Nice, but boring.
Least, says every english teacher I've had.

Stress detail.
Rosemary, Iron, Silver, Cat's sight on two planes, all of it.

Have fun, good luck.

I do have to admit it is overused.

Nero wrote:

Dansariki wrote:The Bartimaeus Trilogy should be classed as a work of fiction, not children's literature.
But, hey, it is.
That being as it is, I agree with everything posted above, and, while I'm not in the IB program (have friends who are, I'm near an AP diploma, for what it's worth) I think would be a good idea to make it fairly all-encompassing - not a problem in an essay like this.
Archetypes are always nice, as is the underlying mythology.
This was commented on by my mother after I asked her to read the trilogy (She loved it) and she went on quite a rant about Stroud, praising him for drawing from mythology (I particularly like the naming schemes) and his attention to detail in the government.
Stroud's use of alternate history, and fictional explanations for actual, but mysterious events (Atlantis and Nouda's hand in the destruction of the Aztecs) were some of my favorite aspects of it. The opening sequence in Golem's Eye and the flashbacks in Ptolemy's Gate were, by and large, my favorite parts of the series.
The nice thing about having the Master-Slave relationship throughout history allows for the cautionary tale you mentioned to applied to anything you can come up with - much of the Trilogy's idea and lessons work for history.
And... I caution against coming of age angle.
It's old.
Nice, but boring.
Least, says every english teacher I've had.

Stress detail.
Rosemary, Iron, Silver, Cat's sight on two planes, all of it.

Have fun, good luck.

I do have to admit it is overused.

Nothing wrong with overused...

...As long as it's written well and shows originality.

Originality is overrated.

Says the one who reads Paolini?

Yes. Your point?

I did the IB program!! OMG IT WAS TERRIBLE!!! I was awarded the diploma but barely. Now doing it on Bartimaues will be hard. I'm only saying that because you're gonna need a very strong thesis that will take you to 4000 words, and I read through the EE curriculum, and it is tough. Now you said you were gonna write about social classes. Well this is not an English thesis statement. That is more political. So If I were you, I would rethink about English and go into Political Science category. But I can definitely help if you need anymore help, being that I gave up my whole life for IB, and I know quite a bit about it. GOOD LUCK!!! And don't die.