The whispering skull, Lockwood and co.

Lockwood & Co.
User Avatar
evillaugh Djinni
[+] Spoiler
While that may be true, I think it was more a business deal. After all, he had the bulk of the materials and had a house full of guinea pigs.

As to the Orpheus society, I think the original founders could have been Lockwood's parents. Portland row has a lot of ghost-hunting paraphernalia, despite the problem being only 50 years old, and mostly in the British Isles.
Friends come and friends go, but enemies accumulate
Si sapis, sis apis - If you're wise, be a bee
If you think the grass is greener on the other side, it's because it is fertilized with bullcabbage
User Avatar
Sentynel One with The Other Place
admin
[+] Spoiler
I'm only speculating on the degree of involvement Fittes and Fairfax have with the society. But some people with a *lot* of resources are funding it, and I think Fairfax in particular is a prime candidate.

I suspect the Orpheus Society pre-dates the Problem, possibly significantly, and may actually be the cause of it. Which would make Lockwood's parents not old enough to have started it. Plus I feel like the Orpheus society are the bad guys, and I feel like finding out Lockwood's parents were bad guys given the team lives in their house with their possessions everywhere would be a bit dark.
On the other hand, however, we know Lockwood's parents studied Oriental traditions relative to ghosts and the dead, and if you were starting a research project on interacting with the dead, looking for native traditions that actually work might be a good place to start. But there's plenty of other reasons for studying that, particularly if they were researching the Problem after it had started.
Sentynel - Head Ninja, Admin, Keeper of the Ban Afrit, Official Forum Graphics Guy, and forum code debugger.
A still more glorious dawn awaits, not a sunrise, but a galaxy rise, a morning filled with 400 billion suns - the rising of the Milky Way
User Avatar
Didier Utukku
[+] Spoiler
I lied. Haven't read it yet lololololol
User Avatar
evillaugh Djinni
YOU WHAT! HOW DARE YOU READ THE SPOILERS! Oh, you're going to regret that...
[+] Spoiler
The grandparents maybe... it's a lot of paraphernalia for one generation.
Friends come and friends go, but enemies accumulate
Si sapis, sis apis - If you're wise, be a bee
If you think the grass is greener on the other side, it's because it is fertilized with bullcabbage
User Avatar
Quest Imp
YES! I CAN READ THE SPOILERS NOW! I HAVE THE BOOK!
Roo Imp
Have you finished it?
User Avatar
evillaugh Djinni
Owning it is only half the journey, young grasshopper.
Friends come and friends go, but enemies accumulate
Si sapis, sis apis - If you're wise, be a bee
If you think the grass is greener on the other side, it's because it is fertilized with bullcabbage
I would recommend to read the book at first :P
[+] Spoiler
Ok, maybe I have found a sigificant sentence in The Screaming Staircase - glossary. Under "Talent" it is mentioned that the skill tends to fade towards adulthood, though it still lingers in some grown-ups. Lockwood will probably have the goggles of the Orpheus-society, George his thermometer. Could Lucy (since she is the most sensitive of the trio) possibly maintain her talent then?
User Avatar
evillaugh Djinni
Damn, that would be awesome.
Friends come and friends go, but enemies accumulate
Si sapis, sis apis - If you're wise, be a bee
If you think the grass is greener on the other side, it's because it is fertilized with bullcabbage
User Avatar
Quest Imp
Well, I don't own it (I got it from the library), but I've finished it.
User Avatar
evillaugh Djinni
Good. Now it's time to make some spoilers yourself.
Friends come and friends go, but enemies accumulate
Si sapis, sis apis - If you're wise, be a bee
If you think the grass is greener on the other side, it's because it is fertilized with bullcabbage
User Avatar
Sentynel One with The Other Place
admin
So a couple of weeks ago, I reread both books and took notes. Here are some of the more interesting things I noted. It's all spoiler tagged because a lot of the book 1 stuff refers to book 2 as well.
[+] Spoiler
This is how I picked up on the Orpheus Society thing, but I'm not going to mention that much here because that was discussed earlier.

Approximate timeline of the Problem:
  • 1950s Scattered sightings in Kent and Sussex "around the middle of the last century".
  • 1960s Major cases "a decade later"; Fittes and Rotwell active.
  • late 1990s Lucy born in the "fourth official decade of the Problem".
  • 2010s Lockwood and Co active
Book 1 (mostly):
  • It mentions churches and mosques were very successful in the immediate aftermath of the Problem beginning, and that the HQs of major religions are located in the same area of London as HQs of major agencies and ghost-hunting equipment companies. We've not yet seen any direct appearances by religiously-affiliated characters, however.
  • This has been noted before (and Stroud claimed it was unintentional in the last live chat), but Lucy is the seventh daughter (seventh children being associated in folklore with magic). It also notes that Talent runs in families. It also manifests early - Lucy was hearing ghosts as a baby.
  • Lucy mentions she can't tell exactly what sort of ghost the jar contains - interesting foreshadowing.
  • Lockwood's family has been very unfortunate - his uncle (who seems to have been a good man) died of a heart attack; we know (book two) his sister is dead, and it's assumed his parents are too. George mentions Lockwood was in care with a relative after his parents' disappearance/death - his uncle? sister? or another relative we haven't encountered yet? (George also mentions Gravedigger Sykes training Lockwood.) This is corroborated by Kipps - "bad things happen to people he's close to... since he was ever so young".
  • There's a mention of "self proclaimed specialists offering ghost wards from Korea and Japan"; it's not clear how authentic this might be or what it might indicate about the level of the Problem in the East.
  • There's a mention of parties for the rich in sealed hotels, including DEPRAC hosting for agency heads - then we get to see one in book two.
  • After Lucy wakes Lockwood up after dropping the flare down the well, Lockwood says "for a moment I thought you were... It doesn't matter." This is almost certainly a reference to his sister.
  • DEPRAC agents have body armour, and of course Fairfax has armour as well (described as more sophisticated). Why don't agents use armour? Is even light mail too heavy and cumbersome for a child, or just too expensive?
  • The ghost jar's speech is "Everything's upside down. Death's in life and life's in death, and what was fixed is fluid. And it doesn't matter what you try, Lucy, you'll never be able to turn the tide..." Obviously "death's in life" refers to spirits rising, but "life's in death" is interesting - does it just refer to the same, or does it refer to attempts by the living to visit the world of the dead? "Turning the tide" also suggests that the barriers are weakening and the Problem is worsening, and that whatever's causing this (whether ongoing deliberate activity, or just that once weakened the barriers continue to unravel) is self-perpetuating and hard to stop.
  • The DEPRAC team seem more interested in Fairfax's equipment than the details of the crimes or the haunting; this suggests they're not in on the Orpheus society's research, and that their own science/engineering teams are behind the society's.
And book 2:
  • The army of Fittes agents have an interesting selection of heavy ranged weaponry Lockwood's team don't seem to use at all. Budget? Style?
  • Kipps' sidekick is named as Kat Godwin. However, the very similar girl (blonde, humourless, sharp jaw, angled hair) in Kipps' book 1 team is called Kate. Continuity error, or very specific taste in assistants? You decide!
  • Marissa Fittes seems to have died some time ago; it's not clear what killed her. Given the timeline and the fact that she seems to have been dead a while, it probably wasn't old age.
  • Ghosts don't seem to usually rise immediately after death, and old deaths rise much later for unclear reasons. This suggests both a worsening Problem and complicated causes for the actual rising; I also think it implies that the Sources are actively drawing spirits back from Beyond rather than that the spirit is somehow trapped in the Source itself. (It's not clear why there should only be one Source per ghost in that case though - or maybe there can be more and we just haven't seen it yet...)
  • The ghost jar is active in daytime (seen in book 1 as well), in that its manifestation is actually visible in the jar, which seems to be pretty much unique (though it's never actually commented on by the characters). It seems to be less talkative during the day, though. Likewise, the mirror is still fatal in daylight, even if the visibility of its ghosts is suppressed.
  • Why does an iron circle work to confine ghosts, when activity is able to escape the iron coffin with only a small crack opened? It also mentions that Bickerstaff's ghost actually passes through the iron coffin, but we've never seen a ghost be able to touch iron before, much less pass through it. Again Lucy doesn't recognise the type of ghost, though in the end it does just seem to be a Type Two.
  • Related, one of the night watch kids seems to be quite sensitive - he mentions seeing a multi-headed ghost, which appears to have been the seven spirits in the mirror, while the coffin was still buried and mostly-sealed.
  • There's a mention of a cult of modern objects after the initial discovery of the Problem, when everybody suspected everything old might generate ghosts. I can't help but read this as being a little allegorical re our current "new iPhone every year" culture.
  • Lockwood met Flo when he was just starting out, and he mentions the Rotwell agency in particular to her when denying Lucy is linked to agencies.
  • Adult Fittes agents appear to have the power of arrest, though they're accompanied by DEPRAC agents and armed police (which is interesting in itself) who might have delegated power, though this seems a bit legally shady.
  • Lucy hears "Please come with me" as Carver dies. The others don't. Is she hearing his departing spirit asking them to come with him? Or is she hearing something else asking his spirit to come with it?
  • Lockwood doesn't seem particularly bothered by the death ("perhaps deaths didn't have the same effect on him") - because he's seen a lot of death?
  • Lockwood states his parents studied oriental traditions, though it's not clear in what capacity.
  • Is the pretty diamond necklace Lockwood gives Lucy his sister's?
  • The adults seem to be able to sense quite a lot about the phantasm they release in the raid on the auction - they open fire on it, etc.
  • Lucy speaks to the ghost jar in the finale with Kipps in the room, who may have questions about this later.
  • Lockwood and co were given a suit of armour by a client, though it's not clear what sort (i.e. ghost hunting armour, or a full set of medieval plate).
  • Lockwood specifically states that he decided to reveal his secret after the skull started talking to Lucy about it - which could mean because it was making her suspicious about it, or could mean because she'd then communicated with a Type Three...
I think the Carver bit is particularly interesting...
Sentynel - Head Ninja, Admin, Keeper of the Ban Afrit, Official Forum Graphics Guy, and forum code debugger.
A still more glorious dawn awaits, not a sunrise, but a galaxy rise, a morning filled with 400 billion suns - the rising of the Milky Way
Ok, sorry if anyone's said most of this before, but there are one or two things that don't make sense to me
[+] Spoiler
When I got to the end the first thing that struck me was: If Lockwood's sister was dead, wouldn't there be a smell? If she was alive she'd need food. If she's a ghost why can't anyone sense her?

So:
Lockwood's parents were psychic investigators, hence the exotic ghost mementos in their house. When Lockwood was younger, they went out, together with his sister, on a case. Mr & Mrs Lockwood were killed, sister was possessed, Anthony took her home. He locked her up because he didn't want the authorities finding out about her and claimed she died in the same incident, then continued the Lockwood and Co firm in the hope of discovering a way to remove the ghost without harming her or alerting the authorities, who would presumably lock her up. He shut her in with the lavender and silver to keep her safe, and that's why Lucy detects two presences (Your parents?) in the room. She's detecting the sister and the ghost. Lockwood tells Lucy off for the locket in SS, and George for carelessly going too close to the coffin in WS because he can't stand the thought of either of them ending up like his sister. He won't let George look in the bone glass for the same reason.
Any thoughts?
User Avatar
Sentynel One with The Other Place
admin
[+] Spoiler
The room is sealed with iron (and assorted other protection) to prevent anyone outside it from sensing its contents. There's no way someone living could have been confined to the room for that long without any of the other occupants of the house noticing, and we've seen nothing to indicate possession is possible (contact with a ghost we've seen always leads to ghost touch, and looking into the mirror is fatal).

The source doesn't necessarily have to be her remains - it could be another object. And even if it is her remains, it could be just bones, or otherwise preserved. I doubt Lockwood would keep a decaying corpse in his spare room.
Sentynel - Head Ninja, Admin, Keeper of the Ban Afrit, Official Forum Graphics Guy, and forum code debugger.
A still more glorious dawn awaits, not a sunrise, but a galaxy rise, a morning filled with 400 billion suns - the rising of the Milky Way
Ok fair enough. I did think my theory was a bit iffy...
[+] Spoiler
So, why DID Lucy think it was his parents if there was only one person in the room?
User Avatar
evillaugh Djinni
[+] Spoiler
Because Lockwood never talks about them, and didn't give any indication of having a sister, so the parents were the most likely candidates. I don't think lucy detected any presence as it was daytime
Friends come and friends go, but enemies accumulate
Si sapis, sis apis - If you're wise, be a bee
If you think the grass is greener on the other side, it's because it is fertilized with bullcabbage
User Avatar
Sentynel One with The Other Place
admin
[+] Spoiler
Lucy detects "psychic radiance ... burst[ing] out from inside" when she opens the door, but it doesn't seem specific enough to have worked out the number of sources or anything - it's just that there's something quite powerful in there, and one or both of his parents were the obvious candidate.
Sentynel - Head Ninja, Admin, Keeper of the Ban Afrit, Official Forum Graphics Guy, and forum code debugger.
A still more glorious dawn awaits, not a sunrise, but a galaxy rise, a morning filled with 400 billion suns - the rising of the Milky Way
User Avatar
Jen Foliot
Sentynel wrote:
[+] Spoiler

[*] There's a mention of a cult of modern objects after the initial discovery of the Problem, when everybody suspected everything old might generate ghosts. I can't help but read this as being a little allegorical re our current "new iPhone every year" culture.
Hey, screw you. >>
[+] Spoiler

I think the oriental bit is going to be important/feature way more. He (Stroud) certainly hasnt shied away from other cultures previously! Lockwood's parents are certainly really very very very significant, and their "search".. there is clearly so much more to it.

I have this hunch they are tied in with Marissa Fittes somehow.

Crazy Theory Time (tm): What if the voice Carver hears ("come with me") is not the afterlife, but rather another person, pulling the ghost to their real-world location? For example, the orient? For crazy experiments or some other sinister purpose? I don't necessarily believe it, but it's worth a think.
"Don't piss me off, Sir - I'm running out of places to hide the bodies."

- Emily
Wow! Great theories!
[+] Spoiler
wrote:What if the voice Carver hears ("come with me") is not the afterlife, but rather another person, pulling the ghost to their real-world location? For example, the orient? For crazy experiments or some other sinister purpose? I don't necessarily believe it, but it's worth a think.
The voice Carver hears could also be a member of the Orpheus society which have some sinister purposes as well.
User Avatar
evillaugh Djinni
[+] Spoiler
I think it's not a member, but an experiment of theirs calling out for carver. God knows what they were going to use skully for.
Friends come and friends go, but enemies accumulate
Si sapis, sis apis - If you're wise, be a bee
If you think the grass is greener on the other side, it's because it is fertilized with bullcabbage

Add Reply