am i the only one that didn't relate Kitty to Asmira. Asmira seemed stoic with a fear of being unactive and a loss of control, she was humourless and short sighted; a straight arrow to the extreme. kitty on the other hand was looser, if you get my point, she was funny with her one liners she was passionate and more angry than asmira ever showed (from what i remember about asmira, i need to read all of them again). yes they had similar qualities, they were both strong female leads with strong opinions, but they're both different in a lot of smaller ways.

Asmira = stoic. opinionated

Kitty = feisty. opinionated.

i dunno if this was exactly what i thought, i haven't read them in about a month or so so my thoughts on both have faded a bit. but i know i didn't relate them to each other besides the fact that barti said in the trilogy something along the lines that kitty was a little like other commoners he'd met when he'd met them so i sort of expected her to be slightly like kitty.

Well she wasn't a replica of kitty but for me alot of her personality and alot of the whole summoning barti thing was like her. But I think her new job, if she gets better and becomes a real assasin like barti said, is very cool. I think a Nefertiti story is coming if not soon sometime, I hope so

Ozy wrote:

wrote:Asmira - I really didn't like her. First of all, she seemed bland. Even though being a royal guard would hide her true self for a bit, when she did relax a bit, she was still boring. Yeah, she can throw some knifes, but in general also useless in combat. At least when Nat was hilariously clumsy in combat, he was still powerful in many other ways. Asmira's skills didn't really convince her.
At the very least, there should be good chemistry between her and Bart - it was very weak in my opinion. Hell, in just one chapter, him and Solomon had better moments than the many chapters that Asmira and him had.
Along with the above statement, here was my biggest issue with Asmira - Too many similarities to Kitty.

Silver sharp things - check (though admittedly this is their best defense, Stroud needs to think of better ways to fend off djinn, without actually using other spirits, maybe not for every human, but perhaps for one special individual)
Delusional beliefs - check
Hot - check
Usual lecture and defiance and breakdown etc. - check

And many other similarities. This was one disappointing part of ROS and of Stroud's creativity in female characters.

Ughhh yes there was very little chemistry at all. Mostly it was just Bart lecturing her, which occasionally fell flat.

But mayhap the quoted appraisal is still a bit harsh? While I agree that she shares qualities with Kitty, they're different fundamentally in beliefs and morality and such. Nothing wrong with a good old 'feisty' female lead. Also, a less self-sufficient/'strong' female character would not have interactions with Bartimaeus that were as interesting to read about, or even catch his eye in the first place, so that's a limiting factor - for this trilogy at least (although HotV also had a self-sufficient female lead... eh, but that's another work altogether).
And on the delusional beliefs and breakdowns - I would say that all the main characters in these books have those? Nathaniel, Kitty, even Bart to a lesser degree ("BLUH BLUH HUMANS ARE EVIL I HATE YOU ALL OH WHAT IS UP WITH THIS EGYPTIAN KID NOOO YOU ARE CORRODING MY PROUDLY ESTABLISHED CYNICISM"). Something known as Character Development, which makes a character Interesting. Any dullness Asmira has comes from not having sufficient chemistry with Bart, being a one-track character by nature, and only appearing in one book which means that's all she gets for development and that's all the readers get for knowing her.

(man I don't remember Kitty being described as hot though. Pretty, perhaps. Asmira was definitely pitched in the 'hot' range though.)
(... I still say that Bartimaeus was a tiny bit too easily impressed by Asmira.)
(also I changed my mind. Don't think iRoS quite as good as the originals, but floating somewhere along that level in the less-hardcore range. I shall refer to it fondly as a supplementary work.)

... Who thinks there are going to be more prequels, based on footnotes or otherwise?

I suppose everyone has their beliefs challenged throughout their life.

I'll agree that Asmira is certainly not as hot tempered as Kitty, I think there are qualities that the two undeniably share. I just hoped the female protagonist would take a more varied track than as Kitty.

To those that say that one book was not enough for chemistry, that's hardly any excuse. Kitty and Bart within a couple of chapters was already extreamly more interesting than Bart - Asmira. Same with Nat and Bart, even with Nathaniel trying to hide his feelings from a mean demon. I even said in my huge ass post that Solomon and Bart had more chemistry in one chapter than Asmira and Bart in the rest of book.

I finished the book and LOVED it.
Now, I haven't managed to read all the comments in both the threads, so my apologies if I seem to repeat something.

I think the book was absolutely brilliant and like Nero said, so it is shocking how Stroud is under-appreciated and the books aren't very well known. I swear I'm going to get even more people to read the books.

Good points: 1) I loved Bartimaeus! Even more so than before. He didn't at all seem cold to me. I thought Ptolemy might have made him more humane and I'm glad to know that it wasn't the case. Bart was nice from the very beginning. I don't find anything shocking in him killing that magician. He didn't want Asmira to die and when the Ring fell in Khaba's hand, he didn't like the idea of him ruling and causing destruction. And Faquarl teased him too about being soft. He was however more prone to rub masters the wrong way (you know, being more cheeky) and I liked his humour better in the trilogy (it took even more years to develop it to that perfection, I think). He was otherwise quite wise as usual and possibly more optimistic.
2) Like most said, the relationship between Khaba and Ammet. Wonderful! I don't need to write about it more as y'all described it well.
3) Faquarl. I admire and like him more now and it was indeed nice to see him and Barty working together
4) Marid encounters! Definitely worth the wait!
And a lot more. I'll describe them later.

Not so good points- 1) Asmira's character was a lot like Kitty's like Nero said.
2) End was too neat.

Odd. If Asmira was more like anybody, I thought she would be more like Nathaniel from book one. She's in over her head. She is far better than what others give her credit for, but others don't immediately recognize it (Nat for his youth and working under Underwood, Asmira for being a commoner and female.) Both have their ideals to the point of stupidity, which means that despite their power, they extend their ambitions beyond what would be more reasonable. Nat glorifies Gladstone and is nationalist for London/England, Asmira glorifies Balkis and is nationalist for Sheba. And both accept the hierarchy (unlike Kitty) even though both wish better for themselves (Nat in higher level magician, Asmira in being first guard) and both have a sense of stern discipline in their studies in youth to the point that both keep quiet to themselves.

Plus I think the way Bartimaeus regarded Asmira was more in line with how he regarded Nat, superior to most. Has admirable traits. But has draw backs that wouldn't put them in line with Ptolemy and Kitty. Like the interactions. When Bart gives lip, Asmira and Nat are stubborn in their views and bicker back. Kitty and Ptolemy listen and viewed Bart with more importance.

Mwamba wrote:Odd. If Asmira was more like anybody, I thought she would be more like Nathaniel from book one. She's in over her head. She is far better than what others give her credit for, but others don't immediately recognize it (Nat for his youth and working under Underwood, Asmira for being a commoner and female.) Both have their ideals to the point of stupidity, which means that despite their power, they extend their ambitions beyond what would be more reasonable. Nat glorifies Gladstone and is nationalist for London/England, Asmira glorifies Balkis and is nationalist for Sheba. And both accept the hierarchy (unlike Kitty) even though both wish better for themselves (Nat in higher level magician, Asmira in being first guard) and both have a sense of stern discipline in their studies in youth to the point that both keep quiet to themselves.

Plus I think the way Bartimaeus regarded Asmira was more in line with how he regarded Nat, superior to most. Has admirable traits. But has draw backs that wouldn't put them in line with Ptolemy and Kitty. Like the interactions. When Bart gives lip, Asmira and Nat are stubborn in their views and bicker back. Kitty and Ptolemy listen and viewed Bart with more importance.

Yes to all of this. Just because they are both strong female characters doesn't mean they are directly comparable. I'd say overly ambitious characters are definitely a theme of the series, and I really loved how it was handled in this book. Whereas Nathaniel only barely masks his ambition as loyalty, Asmira was completely devoted to her ideology. And just the fact that both were very willing to put Bartimaeus at risk was very telling of their own goals. Kitty never really wanted to harm someone else for the sake of a cause. She always questioned it, even if that cause was subverting the status quo.

Also, now one feels Bartimaeus was rather modest in the trilogy right? He just mentioned that he "spoke to Solomon". Nothing like, "I have stolen Solomon's Ring and commanded the Presence within it". That is one think that should make people realize that the trilogy was written before the sequel. =p

And, about what I would do if I the Ring came into my hands:
1) Try and destroy it - or think of a way to let the Spirit escape.
2) Failing that, try and hide it in a terribly secure place.
3) Failing even that, use it sparingly. But, like DC said, anonymously.
Though I would much prefer if 1) or 2) succeeded.

Idk, he said he's spoken with Ptolemy only once, and Ptolemy wrote several books, invented summoning methods etc. Maybe he liked him too much to let the world know Solomon was once nearly assassinated by a 17 year old in his pajamas?

I was a little disappointed that Solomon didn't marry Asmira at the end. I thought she'd end up impersonating Balkis to get out of trouble eventually, based on that Rudyard Kipling story. Jon's Solomon spoke a lot like that one, both of them had rings that commanded afrits and djinns and both of them talked a lot about how hot Balkis/Asmira was

Edit: Speaking of Balkis, towards the end, I was a little disappointed at the lack of a HBIC character like Jane Farrar, until she showed up.

I love your avie. A brilliant choice.
About shipping, I'll just watch. =D

OMG IT'S TEH HIPPO IN A SKIRT :O
Second the awesome avie choice.
And I ship Solomon/Asmira too. Aw, c'mon, at least it's better than Bartimaeus/Asmira. She fails so much that she made me ship Barti/Faquarl. That's my opinion, at least.

-----------------

About the book, now: it was AMAZING.

I loved it a lot. It was so nice to read about Bartimaeus again. And the Sumerian boysalve = :wub: . It had hilarious moments, because, frankly, you don't need an afrit to catch a wive. And now I really want to know how it is like to shove a Detonation down a zombie's throat. It had nice new characters ---I really like Ammet, for instance, as weird as it might seem, because he makes Ptolemy's and Barti's bond even stronger. I mean, look at the way Bartimaeus reacted when Ammet said that he loved Khaba, all like "YOU LOVE YOUR MASTER? OMGNOOOWTF I KILL YOU *DETONATION**DETONATION**DETONATION*". Ptolemy must have changed Barti's point of view entirely.

But I'm not gonna lie, it was not perfect.
For example, the ending. It was too good, as many of you have pointed out. Didn't convince me.
My biggest issue was Asmira. I just couldn't bring myself to like her. At first she was pretty, hot, smart, skilled, athletic, loyal, strong, perfect, yadda, yadda, yadda, gimme a break. Then she went childlish, for some weird reason, and wouldn't listen. And I disliked the way she was loyal to the Queen when she had done nothing to save her mother, just like a blind slave, as Bartimaeus points out. I think both Nero and Mwamba are right about her. She's like a mix between Kitty and AoS Nathaniel. Not original, anyway.

Finally, I have to say that, although I loved this book, I prefer the original trilogy.
----
Also, if I had the Ring, I would use it sparingly, and my last wish would be Uraziel's freedom. If that could be done.

If I had the ring, I would use its power to help nations in poverty. Help them rebuild etc. etc.

Am i the only one who found the Ammet/Khaba creepy? i quite dislike it because it seemed that Khaba didn't really love Ammet and just still thought of Ammet as a slave. It just reminds me of those relationships where on person is treated like cabbage but still stands by their partner because they have a strong hold on them, weather it'd be of fear or something along those lines.

In a way, yeah, it seemed like Khaba never cared for Ammet as much as Ammet cared for him.
And no, I didn't have the relationship creepy. In the beginning, yes.

Creepy? Yes. 'Specially when Khaba implied that he had masochistic tendencies. And that Ammet should know that. But not because it's slash, nor because it's Djinni/Human -I'm guilty of shipping that.
I feel sorry for Ammet. Khaba didn't love him back. He didn't even notice when Shadow!Barti went "Yo, ugly, sup, here you got the ring *Punch*".

Edit: By the way, I did not really get why Balkis sent Asmira out to kill Solomon, unless she enjoys killing off her guards. :-/

I think Nat would have ended up like Khaba, if he'd been Whitwell's or Lovelace's apprentice from the beginning.

Khaba did trust Ammet, he never used a pentacle with him and he was the closest thing to a friend. He just took him for granted, but I would have expected a lot worse from a person who treats spirits like science projects.

aiReY-chan wrote:Creepy? Yes. 'Specially when Khaba implied that he had masochistic tendencies. And that Ammet should know that. But not because it's slash, nor because it's Djinni/Human -I'm guilty of shipping that.
I feel sorry for Ammet. Khaba didn't love him back. He didn't even notice when Shadow!Barti went "Yo, ugly, sup, here you got the ring *Punch*".

Edit: By the way, I did not really get why Balkis sent Asmira out to kill Solomon, unless she enjoys killing off her guards. :-/

I've been wondering that too. Though I do remember it was emphasized that Asmira was pretty, powerful, and on her way to becoming first guard. And she's more quiet so there's a more difficult job figuring out her motives (for others anyways, pity she was a true zealot.) Do you think Balkis wanted her out of the way because she felt threatened by Asmira?

---

Luciene wrote:I think Nat would have ended up like Khaba, if he'd been Whitwell's or Lovelace's apprentice from the beginning.

Khaba did trust Ammet, he never used a pentacle with him and he was the closest thing to a friend. He just took him for granted, but I would have expected a lot worse from a person who treats spirits like science projects.

Well at Bartimaeus says, magicians are generally ruled by ambition, greed, and fear. Khaba probably did love Ammet, but his ambition thwarted his compassion.

Plus at the time, he was probably occupied with his bleeding hand

Most of the jokes made me feel like this book is wasted in the ages 9-12 section of the bookstore.

Luciene wrote:Plus at the time, he was probably occupied with his bleeding hand

Most of the jokes made me feel like this book is wasted in the ages 9-12 section of the bookstore.

<---Does someone want to re-name this smilie "Solomon?" *hinthint*

wrote:Most of the jokes made me feel like this book is wasted in the ages 9-12 section of the bookstore.

That's Stroud for you.

It's tragic. Somewhere out there, is a parent reading a RoS bedtime story for their kid and being forced to explain the contents of the Celtic cabinet in graphic detail. Or some child is using a midget's bottom as a metaphor in their kindergarten class. (I still haven't managed to slip it in.)

Luciene wrote:Or some child is using a midget's bottom as a metaphor in their kindergarten class. (I still haven't managed to slip it in.)

How many kindergarten classes do you go to...?

I have v. high expectations of all hypothetical 5years olds reading RoS.

I hope someone asks me how my studying is going soon, because I’ll tell them that what I don’t know could be tattooed on my prof’s butt. He’s not a midget...he actually looks exactly like the evil nazi from inglourious basterds and acts like him as well if his ratemyprof comments are anything to go by...but my metaphor shall hold!