Er...we were talking about Queezle the Bartiforums member: Queezle7. Isn't her contact info on her profile? O.o

But yes, we are also discussing whether Queezle the character died or not.

And I say, for the third time now, not.

Perhaps posting something more substantial than "Not*" is a good idea, hmm?

she's dead :D

sharingansaber wrote:she's dead :D

Look out, Dansariki about to spaz out.

She is indeed dead, and it is foolish to pretend that she survived or to convince yourself that she somehow escaped.

She did both!
Ah, I am soo alone in this.
By now, she's vacationing in the Yucatan, enjoying the view and the air...

if she were alive, she would have been mentioned again in the books.

she's so dead.

You know what, how about if we keep posting in this thread we stop with the endless back and forth posts that just state something like: "She's dead" or "She's not" and actually add some substance.

*waits for ridicule*

*ridicules*

Has the Stroud been asked?

idk.

I think someone asked Stroud why Barty didn't show more emotion when Queezle died. Stroud answered that Barty was used to his fellow djinns dying &.......I don't remember! But that proves Queezle died, right?

nathanielandbartimaeus wrote:But that proves Queezle died, right?

Enter Datsyuk...

*Enters stage right*
She's alive, but not mentioned in the books because she's nowhere near where any of the events take place!
Either way, Barti did show emotion when he thought she died.
Not much, but like you said, he's seen a lot in his five thousand...

I think Stroud was asked this question, and he replied (and I'm paraphrasing here) "In my mind, I think she's dead. But then again, we never saw the body!"

And I liked Queezle, ^_^ so I'll say she could have survived. After all, she spent time in Prague, so she'd have been familiar with Golems, and would know better than Zeno to try and fight it.

Bartimaeus saw a blackened spot where she was supposed to be. Essence doesn't normally leave a trace, but essence instantaneous combusting due to the effects of Earth would explain it. The Golem disintegrates all the spirits it comes into contact with (even the Afrit Honorius was no match for a Golem). It's pretty much a given that she's dead.

Bartimaeus said he might have seen a smudge on the concrete. Could have been anything. Could have been clay from the golem. Or maybe Queezle was wounded, hence the scream?

As I said, I liked Queezle. (like, I mean. Haven't given up hope)

Didier wrote:Bartimaeus said he might have seen a smudge on the concrete. Could have been anything. Could have been clay from the golem. Or maybe Queezle was wounded, hence the scream?

As I said, I liked Queezle. (like, I mean. Haven't given up hope)

The first step to getting closure, is to accept the fact that she's dead. It wasn't a smudge, it was a blackened spot under the statue's legs, where she was before. Golems don't shed clay. When they're animated and fully powered by the parchment, they're quite solid. It could be said that they become brick/rock-like. The magic behind golems is the exact opposite and could be said to be equally powerful as that of spirit summoning.

The Golem's Eye wrote:I had traveled only two blocks from the place where the portly horseman guarded the seven roads. Even if she had moved, Queezle would not be far away. It would take less than ten seconds to get back. No problem. I would be in time. Three seconds later, I heard her scream....

Everything was exactly as it had been a minute or two before. But the spaniel was gone....

A moment later, perched on the horseman's hat, I scanned the seven roads on each of the seven planes. The spaniel was nowhere to be seen; nor were there any djinn, imps, hexes, or other magical effusions. The streets were deserted. I was quite alone.

In doubt, I returned to the plinth and subjected it to a minute inspection. I thought to detect a fain black mark upon the stonework, roughly where we had been sitting, but it was impossible to tell whether or not it had been there before.

Queezle was nowhere to seen after screaming. Let's bring to mind the fact that spirits can't deliberately disobey orders from their magicians. They were ordered to find and take on the Golem if they found it. She couldn't have simply ran away without tearing her essence in half. It's just not possible.

Essence does not leave a trace when spirits start losing it from taking damage. However, their essence instantaneously combusting would explain it. If I'm not mistaken the Foliot Simpkin left a blackened mark as well when he was killed by the Golem.

The Golem's Eye wrote:Golems negate our magic, pulverize our essences, even when encased in bone.

So let's take this reasoning down the logical route. Orders by magicians to find and stop Golem. Golem ambushes Queezle. Queezle was not around when Bartimaeus rushes back (within 10 seconds). No sign of any spirits or magical effusions when he scans the planes. Black spot under the statue exactly where she was resting. Following this line of reasoning, it's quite obvious that she was disintegrated by the Golem when she was taken by surprise and had no chance to fight back (lack of magical residue in the area).

Dear Lord Nouda,

Logic can go kill itself.

First of all, even according to Bartimaeus, "Anyway, there was always the small possibility that Queezle might still be alive"
and "I thought to detect a fain black mark upon the stonework,... but it was impossible to tell whether or not it had been there before."

I mean that mark could have been anything. If not clay or non-fatally wounded essence, then maybe some very rude person smushed their licorice gum into the pedestal? Maybe it was a grease stain from painters hired to restore the statue?

And frankly, if a huge monstrous heavy clay golem can skip away in less than ten seconds, Queezle certainly could have.

As for Queezle's charge, Ffoukes isn't a very powerful magician, and she might be trying to destroy the golem by running away, like Bartimaeus suggested.

Ooo and another thing: if the smudge was Queezle's charred essence then it should have showed up when Bartimaeus scanned the planes.

I'm not too sure whether or not Queezle died. Her dying always seemed odd to me, though. Let's think about the night of Queezle's "Death":

-There wasn't much sign of a struggle
-The only demons who had been killed by the Golem so-far were ones that tried to be heroic and charged at the Golem to fight it.
-Queezle was scared and had just been told to run away if she did find the Golem. So, it seems unlikely that she would have tried attacking the Golem.
-Golem's aren't very perceptive. They have a hard time finding anything that isn't directly attacking them.

• It took getting hit by a statue to make the Golem aware of Bartimaeus' presence.
• When the Golem attacked Sholto Pinn's shop, it only noticed the Foliot there because it tried to attack the Golem head-on
• Queezle was last scene transformed into a small animal that was hiding under a statue
• It was a dark and rainy night, making it hard for anyone to see anything

-So, based on THIS ^, the Golem would have no chance of spotting Queezle to kill her unless she did something to draw it's attention. And again, I think its much more likely that Queezle would have hid or ran away rather than fighting the Golem.
-Golem's are huge and heavy. The Golem would not have been able to sneak up on Queezle (not that the Golem cared about stealth at all). Queezle would definitely heard the Golem's crashing footsteps or noticed it in someway long before the Golem noticed her.
-Her "Death" happen way too quickly. Bartimaeus and practically Just turned around when he herd Queezle scream. Bartimaeus was already close by and quickly returned to where he last saw Queezle in a matter of seconds. There's no way Queezle could have died so quickly, I believe.
-The fact that no one has seen Queezle since her alleged death doesn't prove anything. The reason no one has seen Queezle is because everyone believes she is dead, so no magicians are trying to summon her.

Theory Time
+Queezle 'faked' her death
-The rumors about the Golem were that anyone who tried to fight it disappeared and was presumed dead. Queezle used this to her advantage.
-When Queezle saw the Golem, she just screamed and, taking Bartimaeus' advice, ran away/hid.
*Whether she planned her disappearance or was just genuinely afraid, or both, is unknown.
-Bartimaeus couldn't find any trace of Queezle due to:

• It was dark and raining = Very poor visibility
• Queezle was hiding or ran so far away that Bartimaeus couldn't find her
• The Golem's essence-draining powers destroyed any trace of Queezle's essence. And/or the Golem's "darkness" blotted out and trails of essence that Queezle had left.
• Bartimaeus kind of quickly thought that Queezle was dead before really doing a thorough search to find her. Bartimaeus was also distracted by his vengeful anger at Queezle's supposed death and by his hunt for the Golem. This could have made Bartimaeus overlook or miss any signs that Queezle was still alive.

-Everyone assumed Queezle was dead, so no tried to summon her or look for her.
-Being a sensible demon, Queezle took this opportunity for freedom and continued to pretend to be dead.