Well, considering what Bartimaeus has been through, its not as if he can get attached to people. And like it or not, most people when choosing their life or someone else's would choose theirs. Kitty had her reasons too. Just because that doesn't exactly justify their actions, doesn't mean no one else had a hand in them.

Nathaniel's no saint either. He feels no remorse when Mr. Underwood gets killed in his petty revenge scheme, binds spirits to the earth against their will (where the atmosphere hurts them and they are killed when the don't obey - by the fourth book Bartimaeus is almost dead). Also, though it's not implicitly stated, Nathaniel's certainly been privy to - and probably been involved in - many things of the bad things Parliament has done (it's implied that it's pretty corrupt), and not done anything to stop them.

I think that all of the characters misdeeds may have been making a point: The circumstances of our lives affect our actions.

Whew. Did that make sense to anyone but me?

FuzzyLobster wrote:Whew. Did that make sense to anyone but me?

Made sense to me, and it was very well put :wub:

I disagree. Bartimaeus tried to kill Nathaniel in book 1. That's kinda evil, don't you think? It bothers me even more since Bartimaeus narrates it, and he writes it in a way so it seems he thinks you'll find it perfectly fine that he tries to kill Nathaniel. And why do you say Nathaniel didn't feel bad about partially causing Mr. Underwood's death? He was very sad after it happened. Sure, you could argue that it was only because of Ms. Underwood, but there isn't really evidence of that. And as I said in another thread somewhere, terrorism is never the right way to protest against something unfair that the government does, in Kitty's case.

I am with Fuzzy & DC on this. Fuzzy put it very well & seeing that she covered nearly everything, i don't have much to add except mightbe the part where he broke his promise to Kitty. No big deal compared to the other things he has done.
Every demon tried to kill/escape their masters. Bart was no exception. Still, he was very considerate when it came to Nat. He knew Nat's true name; he could have given this info to the other magicians & caused a lot of problems for the young, power-hungry boy. And him trying to kill Nat wasn't something terrible either- I might have tried the same if someone enslaved me & forced me to do their bidding.
Nat's remorse for Underwood's death could be debated. I don't think he cared for him much. Surely he wouldn't have minded it, had it happened in GE. In AoS he had a trace of his innocence left; he lost it all in the next book.
Kitty never advocated terrorism. She hated the way the Resistance was functioning & that was made clear in the books. She didn't want to kill innocent people, but her comrades had other thoughts & she had no choice but to fall in line. Commoners were discriminated against so there was nothing wrong fighting for their rights. Sure, the method they used isn't commendable, but the magicians were extremely powerful(due to their spirits) & peaceful rallies would not have worked.

Barti says himself he doesn't really have a conscience

Okay, I know Nathaniel isn't a little angel, but neither are Bartimaeus or Kitty, who in my opinion are worse.

How so?