She was needed. That's what's important.

I liked that we had a clear character motivation for her in GE i.e. the incident with Tallow, but that doesn't justify the things she did with the resistance. In stealing magical artefacts to use against magicians isn't she just as bad as them? Plus, she has to punish every magician because of Tallow? She stereotyped them from the start, which was naive, judgemental, and hypocritical considering she doesn't like the commoner stereotype. I was very relieved when the grave-robbing made her wake up to herself.

wrote:Exactly. She was a Mary Sue.

Haha, I noticed this discussion in another thread... she certainly had some Sue tendencies, i.e summoning Bartimaeus perfectly on her first try, when it took a lot of training for Nathaniel to do it. I thought Kitty managing it the first time completely undermined his power. That, along with the general spunkiness made her a little bit grating at times. But, I think that she is sufficiently flawed enough not to be a Sue.

Anyway, Kitty is okay but definitely not a favourite. Out of the three characters, she comes last for me.

btw, this is my first post hehe

Damn you type a lot.
Same with me. Last of the three, but yet, I still like her.

It wasnt her first summoning, though.

Ah, I'm sorry. Not the sharpest person here lol. I see now.

.russian ROULETTE wrote: I liked that we had a clear character motivation for her in GE i.e. the incident with Tallow, but that doesn't justify the things she did with the resistance. In stealing magical artefacts to use against magicians isn't she just as bad as them? Plus, she has to punish every magician because of Tallow? She stereotyped them from the start, which was naive, judgemental, and hypocritical considering she doesn't like the commoner stereotype. I was very relieved when the grave-robbing made her wake up to herself.

wrote:Exactly. She was a Mary Sue.

Haha, I noticed this discussion in another thread... she certainly had some Sue tendencies, i.e summoning Bartimaeus perfectly on her first try, when it took a lot of training for Nathaniel to do it. I thought Kitty managing it the first time completely undermined his power. That, along with the general spunkiness made her a little bit grating at times. But, I think that she is sufficiently flawed enough not to be a Sue.

Anyway, Kitty is okay but definitely not a favourite. Out of the three characters, she comes last for me.

btw, this is my first post hehe

I don't think Kitty thought all magicians were bad just becoz of one Tallow. From the start, she did'nt show much inclination towards the magicians behaviour etc.
She definately is not a Mary-Sue though many disagree with me.
Ya, I like Kitty least too among the big 3. But that's becoz Nat & Barty r tooooooo good.
Ya, and russian ROULETTE to the best forum on earth.

I think it's the best cause IT'S INSANE! YEAH!
As an example there.

....
I need to pick up the thread of this discussion...
Anyone help?

Sorta still talking about Kitty. Thoughts?

nathanielandbartimaeus wrote:

wrote:I don't think Kitty thought all magicians were bad just becoz of one Tallow. From the start, she did'nt show much inclination towards the magicians behaviour etc.

Ya, and  russian ROULETTE to the best forum on earth.

you're right in that she questioned them from the start, i.e. her history lessons, but the incident with tallow is the plot device which causes her to join the resistance, whose purpose was to get revenge against magicians as a group. kitty was driven enough that she could have got revenge on him as an individual, so it's not too unreasonable for me to say that tallow is the reason she hates all magicians.

haha thanks, it is cool. people are a lot less up tight here than any of the other forums i go to.

oh! Hey Dansariki! Where have you been lately?? lol and yeah we're pretty easy going here. :sun: :D

Not me, I'm being "stalked".

.russian ROULETTE wrote:

nathanielandbartimaeus wrote:

wrote:I don't think Kitty thought all magicians were bad just becoz of one Tallow. From the start, she did'nt show much inclination towards the magicians behaviour etc.

Ya, and  russian ROULETTE to the best forum on earth.

you're right in that she questioned them from the start, i.e. her history lessons, but the incident with tallow is the plot device which causes her to join the resistance, whose purpose was to get revenge against magicians as a group. kitty was driven enough that she could have got revenge on him as an individual, so it's not too unreasonable for me to say that tallow is the reason she hates all magicians.

haha thanks, it is cool. people are a lot less up tight here than any of the other forums i go to.

Kitty's not petty. She would have had her revenge against Tallow alone, if she had no grudge against the magicians. Though it's true, she joined the resistance becoz of Tallow. The incident prompted her too. However, if she was like her parents (who hero-whorshipped the magicians) she might have kept quiet. Since, she had no love for them, she fought against them, without hesitation.

nathanielandbartimaeus wrote: Kitty's not petty. She would have had her revenge against Tallow alone, if she had no grudge against the magicians. Though it's true, she joined the resistance becoz of Tallow. The incident prompted her too. However, if she was like her parents (who hero-whorshipped the magicians) she might have kept quiet. Since, she had no love for them, she fought against them, without hesitation.

the sentence i bolded in your reply is similar to what i said. she could have had her revenge on just Tallow. the fact that one incident makes her decide to target that whole social class makes her judgemental. i never said she was petty, there is a difference between the two.

petty; Tallow throws a tiny stick at them and Kitty decides she hates all magicians.
judgemental; Tallow directs life-threatening magic at them and Kitty she decides she hates all magicians.

in the first situation she's petty because throwing a tiny stick isn't going to hurt her and that's no reason to hate a whole group of people. in the second situation, she's not petty because he could have killed her and Jacob. therefore her hatred of Tallow is justifiable and not at all petty. but it is judgemental for assuming all magicians are like Tallow.

there's nothing to say she had a grudge against the magicians before this incident. resent them, yes, dislike them, yes, but a grudge? it wasn't until Tallow that she gained a grudge. if i'm forgetting a line where it clearly states she has a grudge, point me to the page number.

anyway, it's okay for characters to be judgemental or even petty. it makes them more realistic because it's a human flaw. plus, i didn't say i was right, i said 'it's not unreasonable' to make that suggestion.

VINR!!!!!!!!!!!
Computer's been dead. I'll be gone through the weekend, I'm borrowing one now, and have to give it back tonight, so school's the only way for me to post here, but I will.
And umm... how much do you think she was aged?
Anyone?

At least 35 years. That's when wrinkles and gray hairs appear. If you're healthy.

I have to agree that Nat was an arrogent character but he changes throughout the whole third book.

Dansariki wrote: And umm... how much do you think she was aged?
Anyone?

She is said to have grey hair - so its surely more than a 35 yrs. Mightbe she became 60?

I'm up for 60-70...
Anyone ever read Insomnia, by Stephen King?