Figured I'd throw this out here, a preferably logical (or at least calm) topic for religion, Higher Beings (Even if it means Aliens) and such.

I'm an athiest. Something of a humanist, cynical, and minor hedonist (first and last to the point of pragmatism).

I have no support for a God/inserttermhere, nor support to prove nonexistence. So while I lean towards a total lack, I logically assume a stance of nothing.

That's mine, let the discussion start, and please remember, this is supposed to be friendly. No one's trying to convert anyone.

Isn't there a topic on this already?
And, I don't like talking about this much. Unless it is with people whose views I know perfectly and who, I know, wouldn't be offended. Religion and god is a personal matter. Some people have faith and belief for a number of reasons and some people don't have faith and belief for a number of reasons.

First off, admin-y stuff:
I know this is a contentious topic, so be nice, please. If you don't think you can discuss it civilly, stay out of the thread.
If you're still here, just remember: the world would be pretty boring if everybody thought the same as you do.


Now then.
As many of you probably know or can guess, I'm an atheist. As Dansariki says, there's no evidence for a deity of some sort, and it's illogical to assume the existence of something for which there is no evidence.

Although, this said, I am currently reading the Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

On the note, I'm an atheist too. But I do very strongly feel that all religion are the same and preach more or less the same stuff; love, goodness and humility.

And the ad I'm getting now: I Receive Jesus As My Saviour. I Want To Become A Children of God! =D.

Well since my family is from a communist state, I'm automatically atheist.

But even now when I have the freedom to practice other religions, I haven't really thought to take up a religion. Though I do like the belief of rebirth.

It would be cool if there was rebirth, but since it makes little sense and there is no proof, I don't believe in it.
But I do hope that, in some form or the other, we come to know what is going on Earth some 500 or 1000 years from now. So rebirth seems cool, but because I believe that a dead human is like dead battery which cannot be charged again, I wonder if there are other ways we can experience living again. Also, I wish there was a way to leave behind our conscious; a cooler concept than souls. Something which is actually true. It seems unfair that a person's experience, thoughts, conscious etc. can be lost that way.

It is actually really confusing at times. Though I'm doing science, I tend to look at emotions as something greater than mere biochemical reactions. Classifying behaviours and emotions like that seems rather...cold? It sort of loses value when you put it like that. And that brings about the fact that humans ought to be considered the same as machines (only a damn efficient and, so far, non-replicable machine).

I'm an agnostic, because such things could exist, I just personally don't think they do. There is the probability, however small, that a deity does exist, no matter how many laws of physics such a thing would break.

nathanielandbartimaeus wrote: It is actually really confusing at times. Though I'm doing science, I tend to look at emotions as something greater than mere biochemical reactions. Classifying behaviours and emotions like that seems rather...cold? It sort of loses value when you put it like that. And that brings about the fact that humans ought to be considered the same as machines (only a damn efficient and, so far, non-replicable machine).

I considered that kind of stuff a validity of ourselves as beings. Anything that can hold up after being comfortably spoken about (without the mob mentally that you 'should' feel certain emotions about certain events. i.e. that's why giving a damn about boring events like graduations still exist) is something shown to be really, well, real.

Oh yeah, and I'm an atheist too.

I'm an anti-theist.

What's the difference, again?

Thanks for replying, everyone, I know It's an iffy topic. And search comes up empty, Sent.

I have always thought the idea of someone watching down from heaven as kind of cool. Opens up for excellent jokes, too. Wonder what ol' Ben Franklin thinks of the women now? (He was quite the womanizer in his time, fyi)
When I was younger, I wasn't an athiest, and liked the thought that everyone was comfortable. Nice, although the jokes regarding Hell being a painful party and heaven being "Nope, Go-fish..." were always funny.

Dansariki wrote:What's the difference, again?

Thanks for replying, everyone, I know It's an iffy topic. And search comes up empty, Sent.

I have always thought the idea of someone watching down from heaven as kind of cool. Opens up for excellent jokes, too. Wonder what ol' Ben Franklin thinks of the women now? (He was quite the womanizer in his time, fyi)
When I was younger, I wasn't an athiest, and liked the thought that everyone was comfortable. Nice, although the jokes regarding Hell being a painful party and heaven being "Nope, Go-fish..." were always funny.

Reminds me of what one of my friends did last in in APUSH. She did this drawing of Ben Franklin in a beaver hat with French Women all around. It was titled Benji: American Bad Boy

I want to belive in God, and because of my upbringing I do. But Im still thinking. I guess I dont just want to 'think' so or not think so, Im trying to be sure. I stubbornly like to weigh things. There might not be any evidence but the bibles complicated and might make sense.
You guys are sure of evolution and do not belive in or care about life after death? I cant say myself about evolution because I dont know enough, myabe college will help.

Its funny but to someone like me raised in a very churchy church imagining there is not life after death or something more is as bizarre in a way as belive in something as fantasic as life after death, depending on which side I'm looking at it from. Also funny I notice all you guys are really into fantasy and dont belive in god or supernatural something

I've always felt that concept of life after death arose because it made sense to people. And it continues to make sense to people.

Look at it this way. Religion tells man that if you lead a moral life, you will reach heaven (which is a really nice place) and if you lead an immoral life, you reach hell (which sucks). It basically tells man to do the right thing and tells him that if he doesn't, he will face a bad time later on. Imagine you have seen a person who has done terrible things in his lifetime, but nevertheless, enjoys a good life. You think and know it is unfair. So it makes more sense to think that he will be punished by god after his death. Not only does it make more sense, it is a more comforting thought too.
Rebirth is rather like that too. You lead a good life, and your next life will mirror it. You do bad, and you will suffer like anything the next time you're born. And, as far as inequalities exist in this world, this thought will exist. It will come naturally to people. That is why some people think that god isn't cruel when he gives life of such hardships to small children in Somalia or elsewhere. You can't justify the kind of life those innocent children live unless you bring in the concept of rebirth. Some live such wonderful lives and some, such terrible. And it is mainly because of where they were born and to whom. Luck alone can't decide that. It must be some grave sin you committed in your earlier life. And, if it is not rebirth, it is fate. Which is governed in exactly the same manner.

But, if you go deeper than that, that thought process doesn't at all make sense.

Dansariki wrote:And search comes up empty, Sent.

It was n&b who asked if this had been posted before, not me.

Chiz wrote:You guys are sure of evolution and do not belive in or care about life after death? I cant say myself about evolution because I dont know enough, myabe college will help.

Evolution is as close to certain as anything gets in science. There is an abundance of evidence and very little in the way of genuine scientific objections to it.


As for life after death, the more I think about it, the more the idea of being stuck around for eternity, far from being a nice idea, terrifies me. The human mind isn't really built to comprehend infinity, but just try and imagine doing something forever. It might keep your attention for a ridiculously long time, but eventually you'll bore of anything, and you're never any closer to an end. Eventually anyone subjected to that would go insane.

Sentynel wrote:

Dansariki wrote:And search comes up empty, Sent.

It was n&b who asked if this had been posted before, not me.

http://bartiforums.com/topic/2326/1/
It is pretty much the same thing.

wrote:As for life after death, the more I think about it, the more the idea of being stuck around for eternity, far from being a nice idea, terrifies me. The human mind isn't really built to comprehend infinity, but just try and imagine doing something forever. It might keep your attention for a ridiculously long time, but eventually you'll bore of anything, and you're never any closer to an end. Eventually anyone subjected to that would go insane.

Yes, that is another reason why life after death would suck. But rebirth is rather cool =D.
But then again, it is how you look at rebirth. Like you die and you want to experience a new life again? Obviously, you're not expecting you to know about your previous life. So, basically, what people want is to experience life like a new person again. But, then, we are dead, our conscious is dead, so why are we worried about rebirth?
Er, if that made sense.

I don't know if I'm going to post my thoughts here; I'd probably be at it for half an hour and don't feel like taking the time right now.

But I just want to say thanks to all of you for being so mature about this. Discussions about religion vs. atheism have a tendency to turn nasty, especially on the internet. So thanks for keeping out the name calling and the hatred, which I've always found to be really pathetic and depressing. You guys rock.

Maybe we will be enlightend somehow and able to live with eternity, be like spirits and enjoy the moment or being (but of course the last doesn't sound interesting). Well we would be spirits without bodies of course. Lol bringing Bartimaeus stuff into this. And N&B the heaven hell/another life stuff does look like wishfull thinking taken all together like that. Hmm. But its tecnically beliving in god thats the first step to heaven. Not just being good. And that' what if your good but dont belive in god' is a whole other topic im still trying to find an awswer to from the god pov. Hopefully its more complicated

Yeah, because if you don't really believe in god you won't believe in heavens either.
The good-bad thing is just how we humans see it. Er, if you do believe that religion was conceived by man, then we can pretty much say the good-bad divide was created by him too. It could have been the opposite, but it wouldn't have made sense and somehow, somewhere, humans are tuned for goodness. It could just be evolution. You help others, they help you, you have a higher chance of survival.
And that brings me to religion again. Since I believe religious texts were written by men, I have a deep regard for those men who have written it. They were undoubtedly wise and probably way more open-minded than the rest who lived around that time. But, since they were written centuries ago, they do tend to include stuff we now consider prejudiced. That is one reasons why I believe that religion must change with time instead of it being considered a, um, for lack of a better word, gospel truth. Though honestly, I don't think there is anything wrong if god-fearing people follow whatever their religious texts say. After all, it is like a way of life. There are many options (/religions) you could choose from. But people seldom take religion as a way to live their life; it is usually just blind following of the religion you're born into.

well we'll see someday :blink:

Chiz wrote:well we'll see someday :blink:

It is just what I feel. There is nothing there to see.