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| Global Warming Scandal?; Climategate: Loss of Credibility | |
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| Topic Started: Jan 22 2010, 04:56 PM (3,072 Views) | |
| Nero | Jan 22 2010, 04:56 PM Post #1 |
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The Canadian
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First, the mistake about the glacier's melting. http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2010/01/21/tech-un-climate-glacier.html http://www.indianexpress.com/news/Glacier-melt--IPCC-issues-mea-culpa--procedures-not-followed/569995 http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics/nation/Glacier-melts-credibility-of-climate-science/articleshow/5482702.cms http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/153438/Climate-change-chief-says-sorry-over-melting-ice-lie IPCC apparently screwed up on the review about this report. Then, slightly less credible: http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/hadley_hacked Thoughts? |
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| nathanielandbartimaeus | Jan 22 2010, 06:46 PM Post #2 |
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Marid
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I agree with RCB. About the Himalayas melting before 2035; that was crap. I think everyone knew that. I don't usually trust international reports like that, either about Global Warming or Swine Flu. Everyone knows that the companies pay the so-called professionals and scientists (who, by the way, mainly target the developing countries in their reports) to exaggerate claims about stuffs just so that more people buy their products. Be it pharmaceutical companies or those delivering green technology. They are the same. But again, humans are very quickly degrading the environment and seriously, if China, India and other populated developing countries start emitting 20 tonnes of carbon per person like the US does, the earth is goner. We would be using far more than the earth could possibly provide us. And that is going to be an ecological disaster. |
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"If the bee disappears from the surface of the earth, man would have no more than four years to live. No more bees, no more pollination ... no more men!" - Einstein "I like quoting Einstein. Know why? Because nobody dares contradict you." - Studs Terkel. <@Ximenez> Sentynel: But i have a life? No. Qed. | |
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| Sentynel | Jan 22 2010, 07:21 PM Post #3 |
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Nothing But The Rain
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The glaciers thing was a mistake. Mistakes and miscommunications happen in bureaucracies. If the government accidentally gave the wrong date for the completion of a project or something and apologised and corrected themselves, everybody would roll their eyes and move on. But because it's such a contentious subject everybody's all OMG WTF SCANDAL!!!!111one The only email I've seen credibly sourced is the first quoted in that link. A "trick" in scientific parlance is just something clever, nothing more. In this case, they're discounting data from a small group of Siberian conifers because their data is known to be unreliable. Unfortunate choice of wording and the aforementioned contentiousness of the subject leads to outcry. I've not seen the other claimed emails anywhere, which makes me highly suspicious. For example, the second: There's no way a scientist would genuinely make the mistake of believing a single cold spell somehow discounts global warming. A single data point does *not* change a trend. If anybody seriously believed that, next time we have a heat wave all the sceptics should be suddenly agreeing that global warming is right. Of course it's not going to happen because that argument is bollocks and really, they know it. I'm not saying there's no way the emails are genuine, though. Not all scientists are ethical, unfortunately, just like any other group of people. But discounting stuff that's clearly bollocks or that is misinterpreted, do we have evidence for some gigantic conspiracy spanning thousands of scientists and world governments? Do we hell. Refusal to accept global warming is a simple and understandable reaction to not wanting to give up one's luxuries, nothing more. Climate science is mindbogglingly complicated, and without years of study there's simply no way we can understand the subject. The idea that some random journalist or conspiracy theorist can understand it well enough to be right and thousands of highly trained scientists be wrong is simply laughable. Oh, and fun facts: 2009 was tied for the second-warmest year ever, and vastly more importantly, the 00s are the warmest decade on record. Source. Don't listen to the male bovine excrement about it getting cooler this decade spouted on a regular basis by anti-climate change arguers. |
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Sentynel - Head Ninja, Admin, Keeper of the Ban Afrit, Official Forum Graphics Guy, and forum code debugger. A still more glorious dawn awaits, not a sunrise, but a galaxy rise, a morning filled with 400 billion suns - the rising of the Milky Way | |
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| nathanielandbartimaeus | Jan 23 2010, 01:51 PM Post #4 |
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Marid
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http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_ramesh-says-himalayan-glaciers-not-melting-pm-s-adviser-says-rubbish_1310474 http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/nov/09/india-pachauri-climate-glaciers http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_un-body-claim-of-himalayan-glaciers-melting-alarmist-jairam-ramesh_1336277 The second link is the best as it puts the whole story. |
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"If the bee disappears from the surface of the earth, man would have no more than four years to live. No more bees, no more pollination ... no more men!" - Einstein "I like quoting Einstein. Know why? Because nobody dares contradict you." - Studs Terkel. <@Ximenez> Sentynel: But i have a life? No. Qed. | |
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| FuzzyLobster | Jan 23 2010, 10:29 PM Post #5 |
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Marid
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Ugh, exactly. We had a pretty cold summer last year and all you hear is "so much for global warming," disregarding the fact that there is a difference between "weather" and "climate." And now it's warmer than it usually is. Weather's gonna fluctuate, it's the general trends that are the point.
There's going to be mistakes, there's going to be misunderstandings, there's going to be idiots who falsify information. That's no reason to completely disregard the basic theory. Instead of pointing fingers we should be trying to get together the most accurate information possible and fix problems, not wasting time. Personally I think that though global warming fears may be exaggerated by some, it's a real problem. And even if it wasn't a problem, as n&b and RCB have pointed out; we are doing so many other things to screw the planet over. And what major problems would be caused if we actually tried to pollute less, really? That we may have *gasp* less of an obesity problem if people actually walked for once instead of driving everywhere? The horror! Edited by FuzzyLobster, Jan 23 2010, 10:29 PM.
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![]() "Few injustices [can be] deeper than the denial of an opportunity to strive or even to hope, by a limit imposed from without, but falsely identified as lying within.” ― Stephen Jay Gould FOUNDER OF THE SAM THE BARMAN FANCLUB: QUOTE IN YOUR SIG TO JOIN | |
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| nathanielandbartimaeus | Jan 30 2010, 06:07 PM Post #6 |
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Marid
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http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/environment/global-warming/Now-IPCC-claims-on-Amazon-fall-flat/articleshow/5502902.cms http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Pachauri-didnt-correct-glaciers-report-despite-being-informed/articleshow/5518187.cms Well, they are relying on unverified findings and this is not going to help their cause! |
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"If the bee disappears from the surface of the earth, man would have no more than four years to live. No more bees, no more pollination ... no more men!" - Einstein "I like quoting Einstein. Know why? Because nobody dares contradict you." - Studs Terkel. <@Ximenez> Sentynel: But i have a life? No. Qed. | |
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| Noitamina | Feb 27 2010, 05:56 AM Post #7 |
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Mite
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Interesting fact that I thought I share with you guys, because I believe that global warming is simply a bunch hooey. The earth naturally heats and cools, with temperatures rising and dropping, similar to a rollercoaster. there was actually a miniature ice age during the Dark Ages (People thought the world was ending. Again.). We are at the peak, at the moment. As for graphs, always take a good look at the origin. Oftentimes they'll scootch the starting point up or down or "break" the graph. Since most people look at the graph itself and not the numbers on the axis, it's very easy to be tricked. However, this doesn't mean that dumping tons of carbon into the air is not going to have an effect. It most definitely will, if we don't learn how to manage it. I'd suggest reading Michael Crichton's State of Fear, just for fun. The plot's based on an ecoterrorist attempt, but it makes some good points about global warming. Plus, it's a fun read and I love M.C. (may he rest in peace)! :3 |
| Puritanism- The fear that someone, somewhere may be happy. | |
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| nathanielandbartimaeus | Feb 27 2010, 09:01 AM Post #8 |
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Marid
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Yeah, I hear a lot about earth naturally cooling and warming and that humans hardly contribute much to the effects. And that nature has million ways of bringing forth a balance in environmental conditions and that evolution will ensure humans can survive through the ups and downs of climatic changes (cause it won't be cataclysmic). Yeah, there is great doubt everywhere about human-induced global warming. But, whatever it is, humans do keep adding to the carbon output, and we are going to add considerably a *lot* more in the future. Have we ever faced such an incident in the past? Imagine about 4 billion people each adding 10 tonnes of carbon every year (just half the per capita emissions of the US). That is 40 billion tonnes a year. According to the US geological Survey, volcanoes emit 200 million tonnes of carbon dioxide a year. And carbon dioxide released by volcanoes contributed to the ending of ice age over the years by trapping the sun's heat (obviously, there were other factors too). Going by that, if we humans end up emitting much more than what volcanoes do, climate change will occur faster than it did that time. I am not an expert, I can't say anything except state some facts. But even if humans are not contributing much now, they will definitely do so in the future. Asia, Africa are all developing fast. They make up over 4.5 billion people. And it is not just the emissions that matter. Resources matter a lot too. In developing countries, there is a huge water shortage and it is has been said that the third world war would be fought for water. And then the quality of the air we breathe matters a lot too. And there is the problem of fertile land. Climate change isn't always just about emission cuts. Because water, land and air affect the climate too. We need to utilize resources prudently and that means we have to change our lifestyles. That directly impacts the carbon we emit. Edited by nathanielandbartimaeus, Feb 27 2010, 04:13 PM.
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"If the bee disappears from the surface of the earth, man would have no more than four years to live. No more bees, no more pollination ... no more men!" - Einstein "I like quoting Einstein. Know why? Because nobody dares contradict you." - Studs Terkel. <@Ximenez> Sentynel: But i have a life? No. Qed. | |
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| Sentynel | Feb 27 2010, 10:46 AM Post #9 |
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Nothing But The Rain
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Atmospheric carbon dioxide and average temperatures are changing an awful lot faster now than at any point in history. Yes, the Earth's temperature varies naturally, and maybe this is a natural change, but if it is natural, we're sure not helping matters, and we have an enormous population which is almost entirely dependent on the Earth's current climate for basic food and water supplies. If it heats up much more we start losing a lot of agricultural land and vast stretches of currently inhabited land will become too dry to be viable, and the population is still skyrocketing. Frankly, though, I'm pretty sure that by the time anything gets done it's going to be far, far too late to avoid global strife and billions of deaths. I just hope I don't live long enough to see the full effect. |
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Sentynel - Head Ninja, Admin, Keeper of the Ban Afrit, Official Forum Graphics Guy, and forum code debugger. A still more glorious dawn awaits, not a sunrise, but a galaxy rise, a morning filled with 400 billion suns - the rising of the Milky Way | |
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| nathanielandbartimaeus | Feb 27 2010, 04:21 PM Post #10 |
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Marid
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Yeah, same here. But I am pretty sure I won't. They can't happen that fast. Oh, I used quote there (for human-induced) instead of italics. Looks weird. Plus, you know, 50 years ago, no one was sure if tobacco caused cancer. Now there is no doubt. Possibly, the same will be the case for global warming 50 years later. Assuming we are being right about all human-induced stuff. But doubtless, humans are adding to it. |
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"If the bee disappears from the surface of the earth, man would have no more than four years to live. No more bees, no more pollination ... no more men!" - Einstein "I like quoting Einstein. Know why? Because nobody dares contradict you." - Studs Terkel. <@Ximenez> Sentynel: But i have a life? No. Qed. | |
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| Sentynel | Feb 27 2010, 04:42 PM Post #11 |
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Nothing But The Rain
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And yet, despite us being so sure, people continue to die in their millions from smoking-related diseases. Doesn't look hopeful, does it. |
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Sentynel - Head Ninja, Admin, Keeper of the Ban Afrit, Official Forum Graphics Guy, and forum code debugger. A still more glorious dawn awaits, not a sunrise, but a galaxy rise, a morning filled with 400 billion suns - the rising of the Milky Way | |
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| nathanielandbartimaeus | Feb 27 2010, 04:46 PM Post #12 |
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Marid
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Nope =D. But at least we would all be on the same page. And there would be less resistance and more awareness. |
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"If the bee disappears from the surface of the earth, man would have no more than four years to live. No more bees, no more pollination ... no more men!" - Einstein "I like quoting Einstein. Know why? Because nobody dares contradict you." - Studs Terkel. <@Ximenez> Sentynel: But i have a life? No. Qed. | |
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| Noitamina | Feb 27 2010, 06:35 PM Post #13 |
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Mite
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You're right that we are definitely making it worse. It's like a bike going downhill. We're just giving it a push it doesn't need. |
| Puritanism- The fear that someone, somewhere may be happy. | |
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| Gladstone | Feb 27 2010, 09:04 PM Post #14 |
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| Nero | Feb 27 2010, 09:31 PM Post #15 |
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The Canadian
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Woo. Who wants to go for 500 million CO2 Parts? |
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