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| Topic Started: Jul 30 2006, 07:16 AM (28,879 Views) | |
| Ianna | Aug 21 2006, 08:33 PM Post #91 |
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Marid
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And I say you have nothing good to say about anything, especially if I like it. |
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"You belong in Gryffindor, where dwell the brave at heart, Their daring, nerve and chivalry set Gryffindors apart." | |
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| Rekhyt2238 | Aug 21 2006, 11:49 PM Post #92 |
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Utukku
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Low standards? I just said it was a good read. Nothing special. As I've said elsewhere, it was helpful(along with others) getting me through until the next barti. |
The Mona Lisa:
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| Flibbertigibet | Aug 22 2006, 02:25 AM Post #93 |
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Imp
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There isn't going to be a next Bartimaeus book, I think. Nathaniel got fried by the Gladstone's Staff, remember? It was awesome. |
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| Mwamba | Aug 22 2006, 02:36 AM Post #94 |
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dancing piranha
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I think he meant back before PG even came out. |
| 流口水的婊子和猴子的笨儿子。 | |
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| Rekhyt2238 | Aug 22 2006, 02:51 AM Post #95 |
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Utukku
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Yes. Eragon helped get me through to GE, and Eldest, to PG. |
The Mona Lisa:
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| Flibbertigibet | Aug 22 2006, 05:39 AM Post #96 |
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Imp
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True. But while you're waiting for the next Inheritance book, might I recommend John Bellairs (if you're a horror fantasy fan) or Garth Nix (if you're a dark fantasy fan) or Robert Jordan (if you're a boring hackneyed fantasy fan)? |
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| Ianna | Aug 22 2006, 11:33 AM Post #97 |
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Marid
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I don't like him. But to each his own. |
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"You belong in Gryffindor, where dwell the brave at heart, Their daring, nerve and chivalry set Gryffindors apart." | |
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| Rekhyt2238 | Aug 22 2006, 05:58 PM Post #98 |
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Utukku
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Who would be him? |
The Mona Lisa:
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| Ianna | Aug 22 2006, 08:53 PM Post #99 |
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Marid
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John Belliars. But if you want I could name all the hims. |
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"You belong in Gryffindor, where dwell the brave at heart, Their daring, nerve and chivalry set Gryffindors apart." | |
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| Flibbertigibet | Aug 23 2006, 12:00 AM Post #100 |
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Imp
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Do it. I command you. |
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| Ianna | Aug 23 2006, 12:18 AM Post #101 |
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Marid
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RL Stine Orlando Bloom Person who hates me in Art Post Ect. |
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"You belong in Gryffindor, where dwell the brave at heart, Their daring, nerve and chivalry set Gryffindors apart." | |
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| soldier | Aug 23 2006, 08:37 PM Post #102 |
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Mite
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We will have to wait and see on that. And there is no book that has sold out 1MILLION+ copies that is not even moderately well-written. 1million copies are no joke…….do you believe that all of his fans are little kids who have nothing else to do? Do you realize that there are numerous inheritance forums out there with thousands of registered members? People do not join forums unless they are particularly fond of the forum’s topic. If Eragon is as bad as you assume than I assure you, it would not have sold 1million copies.
Actually, originally and after completion of the book he himself did not plan to publish it. His parents read the book and realized it’s potential. THEY decided to publish it and see how it would go, completely unaware off its imminent success. Knopf books read Eragon and gave Paolini and co. an offer to acquire the book which they accepted. Paolini at this time could not change how he based his story on numerous others. He decided to give it a go with the result of many critics accusing him of making an outrageous rip-off. Paolini planned out his whole story at age fifteen before he even began writing the book. At that time would he have known the outcome, he surely would have made some alterations.
This is his own work, his own fantasy, his own world. He has decided to give the elves hairless groins. Why are you mentioning this point when it’s completely irrelevant? One can also question Tolkien why he gave hobbits hairy feet. But no, there is no question because he has made the fantasy and can design any being however he chooses to. As for Saphira raping that huge dragon, it is not so. Because she assumed they were the last of their kind and had never before seen any other dragon, she wanted to seduce him so she could reproduce and dragons could once again roam the land. But this dragon thought her too young and therefore gave her a beating for even trying to do so. I do not get what is so vulgar about this. There was no rape attempt. Many of you say that Inheritance is a mixture of LOTR and Star Wars, yes that is partially correct. But in reality most fantasy stories are highly similar to each other but there is one factor that distinguishes a bestseller from your average good-vs-evil fantasy, and this is how the author makes his world and story and how he makes slight variations in it. Every minor point counts. There are numerous stories in which there is a tyrannical king who has been causing havoc and an insignificant person discovers he has hidden powers and with them he overthrows the tyrant. Eragon is no different to this theme but what makes this story different from others that were not as successful? The answer is the way he designed his story and the extra tidbits he added in the story to make it more appealing. A few minor examples that give the story flair and help it appeal to fans: how Eragon blessed a child and how this child gradually became a main character, how the eccentric herbalist and werecat were introduced, how his cousin Roran has to face an adventure of his own because of eragon, how he is suddenly gifted with the ability of elves, how he finds another rider who can not aid him due to physical limitations. There are many more examples like this. And if I am not mistaken none of these examples were copied off another story. Extras like these mixed with the deep and finely tuned personalities of his characters enable this story to rise above many others and settle in the hearts of his readers. Do not think that I am a fan of Eragon and consider it above works of Tolkien or Brooks. No, I consider this an epic which is not uber-good nor is it not as bad as extremists make out.
Actually yes, that is what Paolini is telling us. Elves would not dare to cause animals any harm because they have experienced the hardships animals have to endure in order to survive. But it would not cause the animal any sort of inconvenience cutting its skin off if it is already dead. Would it? Who are you to judge if leather would be practical for casual clothing for an elf? Or is it that you haven’t even comprehended the fact that elves are magical beings that are far stronger than humans. They have different physical and mental limitations and would not experience the petty inconveniences that humans feel, including those that occur while wearing leather.
Actually, the sword is 3.5 feet long. Not 5 feet. Eragon wore his sword inside his belt on his side. Definitely the hilt and more of the sword would be sticking out above the belt, below his underarm. I would imagine that the portion sticking above the belt would be around 1 foot. The other 2.5 feet would not cause much inconvenience unless Eragon is 5 feet tall which is highly improbable. Also note that swords hung inside belts are usually positioned diagonally. This is done to reduce the vertical length of the sword and to help prevent this problem you are referring to as the main body of the sword would no longer be on your exact side. The hilt of the sword would be leaning forwards and the bottom-tip of the sword would be pointing behind you. You would easily and conveniently be able to maneuver yourself in any direction without any problem caused by the sword. Also you wouldn’t need to pivot your elbow to a 90degree angle when reaching for the sword as the hilt would be well in front of your side. This would enable you to take your sword out quicker.
Actually anyone can EAT a blackberry one corpuscle at a time even though it would instantly become a pulpy mess, but it would be difficult to CHEW a blackberry one corpuscle at a time because of that very reason. I am sympathetic towards Paolini because he pre-planned everything in the story when he was 15, and when the offer by Knopf came he could not possibly change what he had done and had to continue his story which was a partial rip-off. Do not think I am oblivious to the greats. Gormenghast was and still is a personal favorite of mine along with LOTR and Shannara (I have this insatiable thirst for the classics). At the moment Paolini is a child compared to Peake. His books do not contain the rich texture or the fine vocabulary. But I am just trying to express the fact that his books are not as bad as some make out. They make a positive and interesting read.
Why can’t anyone predict an illustrious career for a young talented person? Have you forgotten about Mozart? Tiger Woods? And there are many other individuals who were talented while young after which they grew up to become masters of their craft. After a tad bit of tutelage in the field of grammar, I doubt there would be any of his age who shares the powerful writing style and imaginative scope. Yes you may say that his imagination of algaesia was derived of Middle Earth but he created various other characters and places on his own which is a marvel at age 15. Physically, the strength of a person stops growing at age 22-23, but mental strength constantly grows unless it is forcibly stopped. That is why I predict a promising career for Paolini. With the passing of time his imagination will expand, so will his experience, which is a major factor that affected his books in the negative. With experience his careless grammatical mistakes would also be no more. His parents lay heavy restrictions on him……..but what’s the relevance of this?
Actually, Paolini has all the right to insert his ideals and philosophies in his books. But anyways, I disagree with you. I don’t think Paolini is trying to promote his ideals through this book in any way. Beliefs of both races fit perfectly to what I imagined. The elves, who perceive themselves as the superior beings think they are above things such as religion. They speak in an irritated and disparaging way when the topic of dwarves and their religion is brought up. Elves are the most powerful beings of algaesia who consider religion for the weaker races. Dwarves who are proud and hardworking do not have a superiority complex and do believe in an elaborate religion of their own. I do not know about you but I have the feeling that at some point the certainty of elves in themselves will become a weakness and maybe their downfall while the dwarves who share a common faith will thrive.
First of all, I have no idea who Orin or Carnoc is so I can’t jugde of this experiment. Secondly this is not Paolini’s fault but the editor’s. Authors don’t have to be geography specialists to write a book.
Don’t mind what I said, it was just speculation. You claim you can write better than him. Try writing a book and see how it goes. I am sure inexperience will also be your main foe. That quote of yours is a blunder on his behalf which can be credited due to inexperience. A bit of tutelage, mix it with a few more years of writing and you have a Tolkien-in-the-making. I personally do not think Paolini is a representative of young writers. Everyone represents themselves and no one else. |
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| Ianna | Aug 23 2006, 09:20 PM Post #103 |
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Marid
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Ok, the feet thing is totally irrevlant. Paolini is just trying to act mature, but can't pull it off. I've been defending the books a bit and I have to say this. Also, this supposedly a children's book...he needs to decide what and who he's writing for.
Another thing that makes me think Paolini is trying to act super mature. Just because experienced writers can actually do it without it being stupid doesn't mean he can. And on the same note: Personal agenda gets in the way of the story. Look at the Amber Spyglass. It's not the whole story being bad, just that Pullman let religion---or rather athesim---get in the way with his story telling. Though Spyglass was just a bad book so... |
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"You belong in Gryffindor, where dwell the brave at heart, Their daring, nerve and chivalry set Gryffindors apart." | |
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| Krim | Aug 23 2006, 11:38 PM Post #104 |
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Djinni
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There is a difference between marketable and good. Sorry to tell you, but most of the fans are young, seeing as how it is a young adult book; sure, there are people with different interests, and the occasional adult that is fond of the book, but in all truthfulness it does simply not deserve the hype. You know, seeing as how you've mentioned you know greats such as Gormenghast, that it is not good writing nor anything special character-wise. One could argue about how many books on the market that are selling consistently are actually good.
He did make plenty of alterations. Look at the back of the Eragon book, which I just picked up so I could skim through while on the way to pick up Perdido Street Station, and see if my opinion of the book had been altered or if there was anything particularly griping in that section, because admittedly despite its flaws there is at least one part in that book that could keep me entertained for the five minutes it took to drive to Barnes and Noble (unfortunately, I got to the Daret part where they're buying things and put it down). Read the acknowledgements. If you want me to give some sources of what I'm about to say, read for yourself or I will try to get the copy from the car. 1. He constantly revised the books, proposed ideas to his parents, and then published it after he was content with it. He then set up a marketing plan along with his mother that allowed him to market it. I don't see where it says he ever objected to actually having it published. 2. There are two different versions: the original and the Knopf. He did make a lot of alterations. I don't have a copy of the original, so I can't tell you, but I am informed it has several chapters that were deemed unnecessary. I'm quite sure he had plenty of time to make alterations (though not to the entire plot, obviously). But he could've added more original elements. 3. He accepted Knopf's offer.
Why did he give them hairy feet? I don't know, I don't know the specifics of LOTR, it might've made the foot stronger, or maybe they naturally have foot odor that repels skunks. Even if it didn't, there is no particular reason to include the fact that Eragon is staring at the penis of his mentor and wondering "wow, he looks a lot different from the men of Carvahall". Tolkien's elves are impervious to the cold, so they're allowed to be hairless. Oromis is hairless because...Paolini didn't want to describe his pubic hair?
- taps finger softly on his copy of Perdido Street Station. - In reality, just because other books are unoriginal doesn't excuse the fact that Paolini is unoriginal. Every minor point counts, but, why the hell does it have to be a minor point? Perdido Street Station begins with a scientist that has a relationship with a red scarab-headed alien that allows for some good character-building, and then he is hired to examine a creature that has defunct wings...yeah. The book is highly-acclaimed. Why should you make slight variations to Tolkien's elves? Why should you have a scene lifted directly from the Belgariad where the elder mentor cuts a bridgekeepers purse, down to the 'wail of anguish'.
The answer is that he was marketed as a fifteen-year-old prodigy. What extra tidbits are there in Eragon? You know, ones that couldn't turn out to be completely major differences that doesn't make it follow Star Wars with a mix of Le Guin and Eddings? Seriously, it's not any different than any other tyrannical king good-versus-evil book.
Roran = a subplot to not bore the reader with three hundred pages of Eragon training. Roran does...what, exactly? Oh yeah, kills the Twins. Which Eragon could've done himself. The werecat and herbalist = prophecy-makers. Slightly original characters, but secondary characters without any purpose other than to make prophecies. The child = she did not become a main character at all, what are you talking about? She became a deus ex machina character mentioned in a few paragraphs that defies the very laws Eragon as a book set down regarding the intention of the magician. Eragon intended it as a blessing, and intentions matter; but a simple grammatical error made a huge difference? Why? Oromis = Obi-Wan Kenobi Three of those are from Eldest, not Eragon. I'm talking about why Eragon is so successful at the moment, not the turgid mess that is Eldest.
You are mistaken. Oromis = Obi-Wan Kenobi. No one cares about Roran and he isn't really much of an interesting character. He leads people and occasionally dispenses wisdom. The way he does it = bad speeches about Ra'zac eating flesh and other stuff that doesn't separate him as a character. Solembum and Angela only serve to make a prophecy, and they do nothing that warrants them actually being an interesting extra tidbit. Pray tell, what are these finely tuned characteristics? Roran's natural leadership that doesn't really do much except make him a natural leader? I mean, it's not like he's really explored as a character. He has the brief moment that you can tell is poorly executed, like his love of Katrina and hatred of Sloan. Eragon is a Gary Stu that just...is stupid. "What do elves worship?" "We worship nothing?" "You worship the concept of nothing?" Murtagh's change from good to evil? I mean, it's not like it's turned into a sappy moment or anything really moving. It's just, oh, yeah, Murtagh is the evil rider with the hand-and-a-half sword, who woulda guessed? I mean, it says he was sworn oaths and stuff but...I as a reader don't give a Cabbage FTW!.
k.
Oromis "disassembled it one corpuscle at a time and slipped the segments between his port-red lips". Seriously, do you see any legitimate point in that? Other than to show the color of Oromis' lips, which is of the utmost importance.
They could've changed it all. Do you not understand the concept of a rewrite? Eragon could've actually been a noble and it wouldn't have changed barely any aspect of the book except that pesky Roran and Katrina subplot, at the same time eliminating the Star Wars "I am your father" moment. Murtagh could've been a hippopatamus.
They are pretty bad, seriously. We can speculate on the possibility he becomes the next Peake all you want, but I doubt just because you think someone has promise that he will be the one to become the next Peake. Why can't Dan Simmons or China Mieville be the next? He has a possibility, like all writers, but uh...at the moment, we have no way of knowing. Right now, I'm arguing about his current state as a writer.
... ... You do know that about once in every five hundred years you get a Mozart, and Tiger Woods had potential but not everyone with potential became Tiger Woods. Mozart was performing at the age of nine, infront of aristocrats. Paolini is uh, publishing fantasy novels that are mediocre at the age of nineteen. He's not Lovecraft or Mozart. People of his age? You mean, 22 year olds? Not to mention refining him would take about, what, to be nice, I'd say three years for him to completely master his craft. That makes him 25. Are you saying that he has imaginative scope? I'm serious, where is his imaginative scope? There is a very major difference between adding a few minor characters like a werecat or a cursed child and being original. China Mieville.
That he said he doesn't read criticism, though I think he does get a few peeks on the side. His parents lay heavy restrictions on them, like not speaking about religion, and basking him in praise. They're sheltering him.
And yes, I know he has the right...but he has to do it, you know, good. Despite the history behind the elves and dwarves, look: the superior race called wise by all, which really hasn't been disputed yet: atheists and vegetarians. Eragon is appaled that he eats meat after realizing how in tune with nature he is. Uh...so er, they're basically the best rest of all the land, and they're saying eating meat and religion is bad...and that's not some kind of self-insertion? The dwarves are the common working class, devotedly believing in religion despite what evidence is given to them. The immortal, carefree, beautiful, flawless elves > the superstitious ol' midgets with beards. But hey, he could surprise me by having a dwarf bite an elf's leg and then they go into Celebtrity Deathmatch, and the elf loses.
...Authors do something called research. Orin = King Orin of Surda. Carnoc = an anti-shurtugal. It was some random proposition about vacuums existing, and it made no sense. Paolini put it in there for some possible relevancy later on, but the experiment itself makes no sense. And guess what, a writer is supposed to not rely on his editor to always make sure that he is not making an idiot of himself.
Yes, credited due to inexperience. Which shouldn't have existed in the first place. Because he had himself published when he was inexperienced. Not to mention he had EXPERIENCED editors at his disposable on the Knopf rewrite. I said I can write better than Eragon, and seeing as how Paolini has over half a decade of experience in seniority, I won't match up my writing with his until I'm his age that was when Eldest was written. Why can I write better than the book Eragon? Because I don't say "Sorry," apologized Brom and I don't use a common hero archetype. That simple. And by the way, writing a book is the job of a writer, like chopping down a tree is the job of a lumberjack. I'm not going "WOW, THAT LUMBERJACK SURE IS MIGHTY FINE". I'm not impressed that a person is doing his job. And dear lord, that took so long...try to make your response shorter next time. |
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Gladstone/Sentynel/Krim/Gladstone/Sentynel/Krim/Stroud/Gladstone The three ships. Kinda like the Mayflower and all those. | |
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| Ianna | Aug 24 2006, 11:37 AM Post #105 |
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Marid
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I have to say Krim is in the right... |
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"You belong in Gryffindor, where dwell the brave at heart, Their daring, nerve and chivalry set Gryffindors apart." | |
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8:38 AM Jul 11