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| Creation Vs Evolution. | |
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| Topic Started: Feb 6 2006, 05:31 PM (7,967 Views) | |
| Bowles | Feb 21 2006, 01:53 PM Post #31 |
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Foliot
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Here's the Wikipedia page for near-death experiences. |
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Author page "I do believe in commas. I do, I do." - Remus Lupin, The Shoebox Project oasis icon credit | |
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| Post | Mar 13 2006, 04:42 PM Post #32 |
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Higher Spirit
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Actually; the Big crunch got thrown outta thw window years back. The Universe's expansion is accelerating. For a Big Crunch to Happen; the Universe needs to slow down and reverse and that sin't the case. Nowadays, scientists believe the universe will continue to expand until The force of Gravity as a whole breaks down and matter is flung far and wide, eventually the Galaxy's will cool and die, even the Black holes will collapse into Oblivion and only Space dust will be left. This is called a Heat death... Oh, and heard about string theory? Aliens! |
| Shame of the Super Son | |
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| Krim | Mar 16 2006, 03:29 AM Post #33 |
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Djinni
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Some other dude wanted to lead Moses' group, then God picked Moses, smited the other dude and made a hole open up in the earth and swallow his family. I have this debate but with a lot more depth on other forums...mainly because there is one major creationists and some of his followers and some other dudes with separate but similar beliefs who argue 'n stuff. |
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Gladstone/Sentynel/Krim/Gladstone/Sentynel/Krim/Stroud/Gladstone The three ships. Kinda like the Mayflower and all those. | |
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| Post | Mar 23 2006, 07:27 AM Post #34 |
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Higher Spirit
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Lucky you; God is dead. |
| Shame of the Super Son | |
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| Ianna | May 23 2006, 12:04 AM Post #35 |
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Marid
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I've decided to resurrect this thread. To either make people laugh at me or actually listen to me without snickering, I don't know. I refuse to believe it Evolution the theory, simply because I don't see the evidence for the beginning of the theory. According to what I've been taught, evolution states the world evolved from a simple, single ansector or gene pool. However, where did that come from? And besides, why would I want to believe I come from a monkey? That and I'm a Christian who takes the Bible, at least Genesis, literally. It makes more sense to me that we're created by God then developing over time, by chance, to become what we are. However, I also believe evolution the fact as described by Wikipedia to refer to: the observations that populations of one species of organism do, over time, change into new species. In this sense, evolution occurs whenever a new species of bacterium evolves that is resistant to antibiotics which had been lethal to prior strains. |
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"You belong in Gryffindor, where dwell the brave at heart, Their daring, nerve and chivalry set Gryffindors apart." | |
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| Gladstone | May 23 2006, 11:29 AM Post #36 |
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If you believe in bacteria evolving, why not Monkeys into Human, they have fossil evidence that cannot be disputed you know. As Sentynel said somwhere... the Human brain isn't capable of dealing with the large numbers and large amount of chance involved in life. |
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| Ianna | May 23 2006, 02:23 PM Post #37 |
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Marid
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I think humans can change over time and so can monkeys, but not into each other. Same with dinosuars and birds. And the evolution theory has changed since Anmaximander (sp?) the Bible has stayed the same, save translations, since it's been written. But I can simply counter that with humans don't have the capability to understand the compleixty of God and his involvement in our creation. |
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"You belong in Gryffindor, where dwell the brave at heart, Their daring, nerve and chivalry set Gryffindors apart." | |
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| Gladstone | May 23 2006, 02:35 PM Post #38 |
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Anmaximander? I'm not sure what that is, nor if it is spelt right, but The Theory Of Evolution has never changed since Darwin. The Bible has been proven to be written by Humans, and there are thousands of translations mistakes, and there are loads of Bibles which are not identical to each other as well. We didn't evolve from Monkeys, but we had common ancestors. There is irrefutable fossil evidence that links us. Look at us, we are vertually identical. Saying Evolution doesn't happen is like saying genes don't mutate. One thing I don't understand is if you believe Genesis literally, then how can you believe that Humans develop over time, if God created us exactly how we are now?... |
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| Beleth | May 23 2006, 03:27 PM Post #39 |
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Ghul
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They dont do they? |
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| Sentynel | May 23 2006, 06:13 PM Post #40 |
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Nothing But The Rain
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What, genes, Beleth? Every time they're copied there's a chance that an error will be made in the copying. That's a mutation. Ianna, if things can change over time, why can't they, over millions of years, change form completely? As for taking Genesis literally - is that literally as in God created the Earth in seven of our days, or seven of his days? As for the beginning of life, a simple protein that's capable of self replicating isn't actually that unlikely to happen, on a cosmic scale, when you have the right conditions - like on early Earth. If you still believe that's too unlikely, then take the theory of panspermia - where life spreads through the stars riding on asteroids etc. It's possible - some bacteria can survive open space and even entering a planet's atmosphere - it happened with the Space Shuttle Columbia crash, for example. While that obviously doesn't mean that life didn't have a beginning, it opens up the possibility for life to begin on any one of a near infinite number of worlds, rather than just ours, making it nearly impossible that it couldn't have started. |
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Sentynel - Head Ninja, Admin, Keeper of the Ban Afrit, Official Forum Graphics Guy, and forum code debugger. A still more glorious dawn awaits, not a sunrise, but a galaxy rise, a morning filled with 400 billion suns - the rising of the Milky Way | |
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| Krim | May 23 2006, 10:46 PM Post #41 |
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Djinni
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So basically, most creationists believe in creationism because it's taught to them at birth, and thus it's more feasible than 'we came from apes', one of the misconceptions that spread to add a fairy tale component to evolution. So, in the unfathomable stars in the unfathomable galaxes in an unfathomable universe, it is more likely that an omniscent being that originated from no place --- which you somehow find to be a more feasible explanation for life than an organism could evolve over billions of years into the diverse animals that inhabit Earth today --- the same way everything came from nothing, another unfathomable question. Of course, with the overwhelming evidence in favor of evolution and the fact that it's the basis for several studies today, and the fact that the Bible has mixtures of stories from a collection of religions all over the world (Jesus' halo = the halo of Bel of the Phoenicians, among numbers of other things) world, you still believe Genesis is correct. Okay.
That made me crack a smile. |
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Gladstone/Sentynel/Krim/Gladstone/Sentynel/Krim/Stroud/Gladstone The three ships. Kinda like the Mayflower and all those. | |
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| Ianna | May 24 2006, 02:05 AM Post #42 |
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Marid
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Well it has.
Well, first of all I don't believe in millions of years. But moving on... Things mainly change over time because of gene recombination. From what I've gotten of evovlution, it seems things are getting new traits randomly somehow. I'm a bit confused on the monkeys part. Are you saying we didn't evolve from monkeys but had ansectors with them? Or all humans had common ansectors (it's almost ten and I'm tired). And as said before I think we develop over time because of gene recombination and certain environment factors can play into that.
Anaximander (sp?) was a Greek philospher who stated that life emerged from the sea and grew into what is today, or something a long those lines.
Seven of our days is seven of his days, I believe. The whole verse about 1,000 days being a day to God is about his patience.
Actually, I think people borrowed from Genesis, but that's just my opinion. I haven't read all the Bible in a long time but I'm not sure I've ever read about Jesus's halo. I think it's just a thing in paintings. But of course I'm not always right, the Bible is a long book, well books, actually.
It might have been taught to me at birth, but I didn't believe until two years ago. Long story about research, conviction, and rebellion that's way off topic. But even then I really didn't like the idea that we all of a sudden came by chance onto the Earth. Another thing I don't understand...how did this organism become multiple things? I suppose something to do with asexual reproduction? Well, it's kind of beyond human minds except God has always been there and always will be. |
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"You belong in Gryffindor, where dwell the brave at heart, Their daring, nerve and chivalry set Gryffindors apart." | |
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| Krim | May 24 2006, 11:21 PM Post #43 |
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Djinni
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...They borrowed from something written 2,500 years in the future? The halo was worn in worship to the sun god. Your whole argument is based off the fact that you are not an evolutionist, have not studied into evolution, do not comprehend evolution, think evolution's ideas are ridiculous, but you know basically nothing about evolution and the proof that backs it. Want to know why evolution is not scientific law? It's quite simple, we can't prove it without a shadow of a doubt, as scammers like Ken Hovind say to deal a low blow and try to discredit evolution. As for the halo itself, christian art adopts it as a symbol of righteousness, holiness. The same way it adopts the thought that Jesus was a frail, long-haired, mystical looking man of pale complexion. Which raises the question of, why do pictures show a middle-aged caucasian man, born in a place where dark skin is dominant. Why is it that Jews forbidded men to have long hair, but Yeshua is often depicted as such? His image is a tarnished thing, changed by the Roman Catholic Church and altered continuously. As a matter of fact, those translations you mentioned are plentiful, and add a very noticeable change in prose throughout each translation. The exact words of the Bible are unknown, let alone the real content that has been excluded from our viewing pleasure... There are quite a few interesting stories to be told relating to Jesus, but I'll name two: birth and death. Here's a good old story from mythology. Nimrod was informed by his soothsayers that a great prince would be born the same time a star shines brightly in the sky. Sacrifice for the betterment of mankind? Saying that he will return to redempt all men? It's going to be a crowded sky the day of the Coming, seeing as how the Mayan Maize God, Quetzalcoatl, Krishna, and all of those good people who sacrificed themselves will be here too. But, I am obliged by morals to allow you to have your own freedom of religion, but it does sadden me to see something say something like 'I don't believe that it's possible life just sprang up on Earth.' It didn't spring up, it was a gradual process and the life of organisms is a mere blink of the eye in the life of Earth. Since I'm under the impression all astronomers aren't lying about the vastness of the universe, you have to accept the fact that it's not that incredible a chance that (out of what, 9 x 10^9999999 --- just threw in some random nines, for the sake of showing you that it's a massive amount --- planets?) one could sustainlife. |
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Gladstone/Sentynel/Krim/Gladstone/Sentynel/Krim/Stroud/Gladstone The three ships. Kinda like the Mayflower and all those. | |
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| Beleth | May 25 2006, 05:09 PM Post #44 |
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Ghul
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Ianna: You say there is no concrete evidence for evolution, but there is definitly no concrete evidence for God either. A note on the evolution of humans, why is it that we could not have developed from apes (note that I did not say monkeys)? They have the same kind of skeletal structure to us, the same organs, you name it. It would take a good few hundred thousand years, but it is very feasable that we developed from a species of ape, just one. A species that no longer exists because it evolved. The thing with evolution is, its reliant on the environment. I mean, look at the world now, it is full of humans, but there are different species of humans: caucasian, asian, african. All of us have the same type of body, but are adapted different to suit our environment, dark skin, small eyes, big feet. All developed for a purpose. To me evolution seems very possible, and I compleatly believe in it...im curious to know the argument against it. |
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| Sentynel | May 25 2006, 05:14 PM Post #45 |
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Nothing But The Rain
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Oh? What about carbon-14 dating? Fossils of animals that don't exist on the Earth any more?
Well done. Your (limited) knowledge of evolution is right. New traits appear randomly. Why? Because gene copying isn't perfect. Without going into the complicated chemistry of genetic replications, there's a chance that a mistake or mistakes will be made every time a gene is copied. The chances are higher in some species that others - eg viruses. Most of these mistakes won't change anything, but swapping a base on certain genes will make a difference - anything from a different coloured pigment in the eye to the cell replication going into overdrive (that's a cancer). If the trait given to the animal/plant/microorganism is benificial to it, it will be more likely to survive, breed, and pass it on to its kids.
We didn't evolve from monkeys, but our ancestors were the same. Monkeys as we see them now didn't exist millions of years ago, but the same group of creatures evolved into humans and monkeys (and if you go back far enough, all mammals). You've almost got it with gene recombination. All you need to do is go down a few levels in scale to changing the individual base pairs making up the genes. If genes didn't mutate, then sure, people would all look different, for example, by getting different combinations of genes. But the species as a whole wouldn't change and grow into different species.
Ah, right, so you believe the whole world was created in seven days a bit over four thousand years ago, going by dates in the Bible. Fair enough; I've already addressed the millions of years thing.
As Krim mentioned, the level of technology of the early civilisations was apparently pretty damn impressive. Our civilisation hasn't managed time machines yet.
Ignoring evidence and everything else, you'd rather believe that a supernatural force suddenly created us than believe that somewhere in our vast universe, over untold millions of years, life evolved from a simple self-replicating protein which was itself created by a lucky chemical reaction out of the near infinite number of reactions that have happened over the course of the universe's existance?
In a way, yes. It was a protein, probably tiny, that was able to self-replicate. Exactly how isn't known to any reasonable level of certainty, but perhaps a group of these molecules could react together in such a way that they'd catalyse the production of more of these molecules?
You can't or won't contemplate the fact that you were created by chance reactions over many millions of years, but you happily believe that you were created by a 'God' that was created by... what? Oh, and you say you became Christian after research. Apparently this research didn't manage to look at evolution at all? And what Krim said. |
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Sentynel - Head Ninja, Admin, Keeper of the Ban Afrit, Official Forum Graphics Guy, and forum code debugger. A still more glorious dawn awaits, not a sunrise, but a galaxy rise, a morning filled with 400 billion suns - the rising of the Milky Way | |
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6:57 PM Jul 11