Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome.

We hope you enjoy your visit to Bartiforums.com

Since 2005 we've been a place for Bart fans to come together, discuss the books and other things. Jonathan Stroud himself is also a member of our community and you have the chance to talk to him. All you need to do is register an account.

Once registering you'll have the ability to set up and customise your profile, and access the options to post replies. Registration is completely free. There are no costs for access to any part of our board.

Join our community!

If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features: (Advanced Login)

Username:   Password:
Creation Vs Evolution.
Topic Started: Feb 6 2006, 05:31 PM (7,957 Views)
Kibblediggit
Member Avatar
Ghul
How so?
Offline Profile _Quote Top
 
Krim
Member Avatar
Djinni
I'm saying your example doesn't make sense, because science doesn't say 'oh well, rock didn't drop, try a million more times'. They'll look for a reason, and most of the time, there will be. If not, it'll be dismissed as a 'phenomenon'. I don't believe we know (or knew, at least) what exactly creates a will-o'-the-wisp, but there are scientific explanations that could explain them. Or you could go with the folklore of dead spirits or whatever...

Puck, that silly little goblin imp thing...

...so like, this convo is going no where.
Gladstone/Sentynel/Krim/Gladstone/Sentynel/Krim/Stroud/Gladstone

The three ships. Kinda like the Mayflower and all those.
Offline Profile _Quote Top
 
Post
Member Avatar
Higher Spirit
Quote:
 
How so?

The Bible was written by humans, edited by humans and published by humans.

Will'o'the Wisp:
Quote:
 
One possible naturalistic and scientific explanation for such phenomena is that the oxidation of hydrogen phosphide and methane gases produced by the decay of organic material may cause glowing lights to appear in the air. Experiments, for example, done by the Italian chemists Luigi Garlaschelli and Paolo Boschetti, have replicated the lights by adding chemicals to the gasses formed by rotting compounds. Critics claim that this theory does not easily account for reported cases which claim lights bob, swoop, soar upwards or downwards, or move against the wind.

William Corliss writes, in Remarkable Luminous Phenomena in Nature (Sourcebook Project, Glen Arm, MD, 2001:290): "No satisfactory mechanism has been demonstrated whereby gases escaping from marshy areas will spontaneously ignite. Furthermore, most low-level nocturnal lights are cold--not what one would expect from burning methane. Also, no one has explained how clouds of luminous gas can maintain size and shape while engaging in erratic maneuvers over many minutes."

Others believe bioluminescent effects (e.g. honey fungus) cause the light. Other explanations include causes similar to ball lightning.

More recently, under the broader banner of 'Earth Lights', pseudoscientific theories as to how they are produced have been put forward by Professors Derr & Persinger, and Paul Devereux (who, in some circles, is considered the 'authority' on earth lights of various kinds, including ball lightning, St. Elmo's Fire and lights associated with earthquakes). Derr & Persinger put forward the theory that earth lights may be generated by tectonic strain. (NB. These are faults in the earths crust, similar to, indeed including, earthquake faults.) The theory goes that the strain causes heat in the rocks, vaporising the water in them. Piezoelectric rocks such as quartz then produce electricity, which is channeled up through this column of vaporised water, until it reaches the surface - somehow displaying itself in the form of earth lights. This theory would assert that the majority of earth lights are seen over places of tectonic strain. If it is correct, it would explain why such lights often behave in an erratic and even seemingly intelligent manner, often defying the laws of gravity. Paul Devereux's explanation, however, is much broader. He thinks that the link between the lights and the landscape is more tenuous. He says that they are probably related to many things: tectonic strain, weather conditions, local geography, 'ley lines', terrain, water table depth and so forth. This explanation, however, is rejected by most experts as highly unscientific.

Other similar theoretical explanations, however, involving light emanating from naturally occurring electric currents do not involve pseudoscientific elements. Also, electric-based theories more easily account for the claimed seemingly free movement of the lights and claims that the lights react upon the introduction of nearby objects (e.g. humans).
Shame of the Super Son
Offline Profile _Quote Top
 
Krim
Member Avatar
Djinni
You like randomly quoting wikipedia.

Note:

Quote:
 
One possible naturalistic and scientific explanation
Gladstone/Sentynel/Krim/Gladstone/Sentynel/Krim/Stroud/Gladstone

The three ships. Kinda like the Mayflower and all those.
Offline Profile _Quote Top
 
Post
Member Avatar
Higher Spirit
Ah, should have edited that.
Shame of the Super Son
Offline Profile _Quote Top
 
Kibblediggit
Member Avatar
Ghul
Yeah, but some of those humans talked to God himself. Or to Jesus. All it proves is that there might be very important "typos" in the bible.

And just because you know how it happened doesn't mean that it wasn't a miracle. :3
Offline Profile _Quote Top
 
Post
Member Avatar
Higher Spirit
Quote:
 
Yeah, but some of those humans talked to God himself. Or to Jesus. All it proves is that there might be very important "typos" in the bible.

I doubt it, it was, like, 60 years after the events.

Quote:
 
And just because you know how it happened doesn't mean that it wasn't a miracle. :3

"Any suffieciently advanced science is undisguinsible from magic' - HG Wells.
If nothing else explains it:
"If you tell a lie big enoug and often enough, it becomes the truth" - Hitler
Shame of the Super Son
Offline Profile _Quote Top
 
Kibblediggit
Member Avatar
Ghul
How do you know it was sixty years?

Magic and miracles are two very different things. Are you interested/open or should I not go into detail?

And the truth always comes out, somewhere and sometime.
Offline Profile _Quote Top
 
Post
Member Avatar
Higher Spirit
Kibblediggit
Jul 3 2006, 11:57 AM
How do you know it was sixty years?




Read any editorial about the bible.

Quote:
 
Magic and miracles are two very different things. Are you interested/open or should I not go into detail?

I'm always ready to debunk whatever you say. Or are you going to say something so utterly brilliant that I'll shut up?

Quote:
 
And the truth always comes out, somewhere and sometime.

Really now, it took what 5000 years of civilization to know the Earth is nor flat? A lie big enough told often enough becomes the truth.
Shame of the Super Son
Offline Profile _Quote Top
 
Kibblediggit
Member Avatar
Ghul
But it wasn't the truth, was it?

And editorials aren't always correct, besides, people lived longer in biblical times. And sixty years was enough time to mentally make mistakes while writing it. Or whatever. Where did this point come from again?

It's not brilliant enough for you to shut up. It's more novel. We'd have to get past the first stage of this conversation in order for anyone to truly appreciate it. D:
Offline Profile _Quote Top
 
Post
Member Avatar
Higher Spirit
Kibblediggit
Jul 3 2006, 01:35 PM
And editorials aren't always correct, besides, people lived longer in biblical times. And sixty years was enough time to mentally make mistakes while writing it. Or whatever. Where did this point come from again?


So, without mordern medicine and hygiene, opressed by those romans, the lived longer than us? I'd say the lifespan of a peasanst in biblical times was 50-60 years at best.
Shame of the Super Son
Offline Profile _Quote Top
 
Gladstone
Member Avatar


Phaos
Jul 2 2006, 09:55 PM
No one ever has, no one ever will, only god himself can prove that he exists

dont want to sound stupid, but...I have no clue what micro and macro evolution is.

and what do you mean that god does nothing? Everyday there are miracles, people revived, people saved, prayers answered.

People chuck babies into Ovens in 1943.

You don't even know what Macro and Micro evolution is, how can completely dismiss evolution then?
Offline Profile _Quote Top
 
Post
Member Avatar
Higher Spirit
Okay,now here's My two cents.

THE DISPROVAL OF GOD.

Well, god is omnipotent and omniscient, right? All power and all Knowing.

Well, if God is omnipotent, can he create a object so heavy he can not lift it? A task he can not complete? Ask a question he can not answer? If he can, he is no longer omnipotent. If he can't he's not omnipotent is he? The Omnipotence Paradox.

And now, the Omniscience paradox, I'll start will a statement and assume you agree. (And you better.)

"Free Will Exists."

Now, if you have free will, you have a choice on what you are going to do. ie, mutiple options can be taken. And now, if God is Omniscient, he already knows what choice you are going to make. Voiding free will, if God knows what choice you are going to make, you don't have a choice, per see? No free will or No omniscient god.

Even if you disregard the above; there's general problem of evil. It exists. If god is Omnipotent, Omniscient and all Benevolent, why is there so much evil in the world?



Shame of the Super Son
Offline Profile _Quote Top
 
Luciene
Member Avatar
Zombie Hunter
Quote:
 
So, if we have free will, and God is omnipotent, he already knows what we're going to do, which rather destroys the point. Or else he doesn't fit the quota.


God knows what we're going to do. That doesn't mean he has to do something to stop us. I think he lets us make mistakes and learn from them.

Quote:
 
Creationists, on the other hand, work by taking the scriptures as their primary source of imformation.


Actually no. Like they said, the Bible is scripture, a.k.a religious. So it's not historical.

Quote:
 
it goes against everything from carbon dating to fossil records.


Carbon dating only
Quote:
 
determines the age of carbonaceous materials up to ca 60,000 years old


Quote:
 
A rat in a cage also has free will, but can it control it's own destiny? No. Same principle here.


People have rational thought unlike rats. We're smater than them. We're also not in cages. Or if you feel trapped, where do you want to go?
Offline Profile _Quote Top
 
Sentynel
Member Avatar
Nothing But The Rain

What about the tsunami a couple of years ago? Earthquakes? Volcanic eruptions? Hurricanes? Humans had nothing to do with those happening. And yet they happen, and kill millions. Why does god allow it?


Quote:
 
Actually no. Like they said, the Bible is scripture, a.k.a religious. So it's not historical.

So why, oh why, do they set out to "prove" intelligent design, the existance of God, or whatever, taking it as fact from the beginning?
It's like a study which tried to prove homeopathy (where apparently, water retains the effects from having ingredients added in quantities so tiny that there are actually no molecules of the ingredients left in it). The results turned up positive for homeopathy. However, when the experiment was repeated so the scientists doing it didn't know which beakers contained water with homeopathic 'ingredients' (for want of a better word) in, there was no result. They were unconsciously twisting the results to prove what they wanted to prove.

Sentynel - Head Ninja, Admin, Keeper of the Ban Afrit, Official Forum Graphics Guy, and forum code debugger.
A still more glorious dawn awaits, not a sunrise, but a galaxy rise, a morning filled with 400 billion suns - the rising of the Milky Way
Offline Profile _Quote Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
Enjoy forums? Start your own community for free.
Learn More · Sign-up Now
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · General Chat · Next Topic »